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Re: Wanted: introductory page for all teams

On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 08:00:17PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote:
> On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 07:53:30PM -0400, David Nusinow wrote:
> > The only thing I've ever heard about helping out with the website is that
> > it's a herculean task that no mere mortal should attempt.
> Where did you hear this?

Word of mouth, usually in conjunction with promises that the site would be
updated to not look like it came from the 90's and no visible improvements
in that area. I'd heard about meetings at debconf/debcamps to work on this,
and yet the site still looks almost identical to the way it did when I
first downloaded Debian back in 1999. People said it was a big task, and if
it was true then that would explain the lack of visible progress despite
all the discussions.

> How does all that documentation we have had for years at
> http://www.debian.org/devel/website/ in any way say or imply that
> "helping out with the website is a herculean task that no mere mortal
> should attempt"? How do all those relatively clueless translators who
> simply know two languages manage to get things done? Are they all immortals?

Translation is fundamentally different than restructuring the website and
bringing it up to modern standards. From what I understood, one of the
reasons why it was so hard to restructure the site was because it was
carefully set up for easy translation, making it tied to specific tools. I
didn't care enough to investigate further.

> > I trivially had access, as does everyone else on the XSF, even non-DD's,
> > making it incredibly easy to actually do work. As far as I'm concerned,
> > the web site should be deprecated in favor of the wiki.
> It's not trivially easy to do, therefore it sucks?
> What's next in this fine line of reasoning, I wonder? It doesn't have
> a MS Windows GUI that my granny thinks is trivial, therefore it sucks?

I don't consider my job in Debian to maintain the website. I consider my
job to help maintain X. I've taken it upon myself to work on the XSF wiki
pages because it's useful and important, but it's clearly a secondary
concern to actually working on the software. Given this, anything that
makes the job easier and more trivial so I can focus on what I consider to
be important is a very valid reason.

I think that any tool that lets us do this should be considered. Debian
isn't in the website creating business, we're in the Free Software
Distribution creating business. If a tool, like a wiki, makes it
substantially easier for us to go about that business then yes, I think we
should use it.

> Can you please realize that this kind of unsubstantiated blather actually
> hurts the feelings of the people who are making a good-faith effort to
> keep the web site working?

I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, nor am I trying to criticize
anyone. I had heard that overhauling the website (not just keeping it
working) was a big task, and that shouldn't be interpreted as heaping
scorn on you or anyone else.

 - David Nusinow

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