Re: cdrtools

[Josselin Mouette <joss@debian.org>]

Le lundi 07 août 2006 à 12:24 +0200, Joerg Schilling a écrit :
> As long as people from Debian are on calumiation campaigns aginst
> OSS authors, Debian needs to be called non-free.

Why do you have to be so self-centered? This is not a calumniation
campaign, this is not about YOU. We just think your software isn't fit
to be distributed by us. If you really want that badly that we
distribute your software, you should just comply with our requirements,
that's all.

> Debian must either be able to clean itself from people who use Debian
> for such campaigns against OSS authors, or Debian needs to be called
> a higly suspect and non-free project.

On what grounds? Because you don't like us?

> > GR stated that invariant sections aren't acceptable for the specific
> > GFDL case, and there is no reason why they would be acceptable for
> 
> If Linux Distributions would not distribute bastardized versions of cdrecord,
> there was no need to add the statements you might be talking about.

This is free software or this is not free software. If you don't like
when people distribute modified versions of your software, you should
not try share them with the free software community.

For example, I don't like when people distribute buggy modified versions
of my packages, like this happened with Knoppix or Ubuntu. However I
won't stop making my packages free for such a frivolous reason.

> But note: you are again spreading lies!
> 
> You should better inform yourself on the Debian project and about the 
> GPL.

I am obviously better informed than you about the Debian project and
about the GPL. You don't know the former at all and you haven't read the
latter enough to understand it.

> The phrases that are inside cdrecord, have been clearly accepted by Debian
> more than 4 years ago

But the result of the GFDL GR implies that we should reconsider this
acceptance under the light of what the project currently thinks of
invariant sections.

> and they have been 100% GPL compatible as long as 
> cdrecord was published under GPL.

No. The GPL explicitly forbids to add any additional restriction. 

> Note that there are no invariant sections
> in my sofware. As long as you do not create problems with my reputation (which 
> meand that you may need to call cdrecord e.g. "kindergarten", you may apply 
> any changes you like....).

That's not "any changes we like", sorry.

> > cdrecord. Furthermore, there are issues with the CDDL and currently no
> > CDDL-licensed project has been accepted.
> 
> There are definitely NO issues with the CDDL. The CDDL gives at least
> as much freedom as the GPL does and the CDDL is a first class OSS license.
> It has been accepted by the OSI and this is sufficient for anybody.

Debian is not the OSI. Debian decides what is acceptable for Debian, not
the OSI. As the OSI has repeatedly accepted blatantly non-free licenses
in the past, we have no reason to trust them on this matter.

> > All of this, without even taking into account your brain-dead licensing
> > mix between CDDL and GPL - which are intentionally incompatible
> > licenses, according to Sun guys.
> 
> The more such lies you write, the more I get the impression that you are
> a really bad troll.
> 
> Sun did definitely NOT create the CDDL to be incompatible to the GPL.
> What you are doing here is FUD of the worst kind!

No, this is from first hand, real-life discussion with Sun people at
DebConf. A part of the staff wanted to use the GPL, but the developers,
who were old times BSD fans, didn't want a copyleft and they didn't want
a GPL-compatible license. The CDDL was the compromise they found, and it
was *intentionally* written to be incompatible with the GPL.

> I am still in hope that this is a problem with people like you only 
> and not a general problem with Debian. Note that Debian has been a 
> respectable project in the past. If Debian does not dissociate from people
> like you, Debian will soon become completely incredible.

There is an expulsion procedure documented there:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2005/08/msg00005.html

If you can convince enough developers to start an expulsion procedure
against me, this should be fine.

> So why do they allow you to troll in the name of Debian?

I am not doing anything in the name of Debian. I am just trying to be
patient and taking some of my precious time to explain you how things
work, but given your reaction, it just looks like a waste of time.
-- 
 .''`.           Josselin Mouette        /\./\
: :' :           josselin.mouette@ens-lyon.org
`. `'                        joss@debian.org
   `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom