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Re: Using buildds only

Martin Pitt <mpitt@debian.org> writes:

> Hi Wouter!
> Wouter Verhelst [2005-08-23  1:26 +0200]:
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2005 at 04:08:37PM +0200, Martin Pitt wrote:
>> > Hamish Moffatt [2005-08-22 23:47 +1000]:
>> > > There is the possibility that developer builds get extra features
>> > > enabled due to other installed libraries etc. This could be checked for
>> > > by analysing the packages files for different architectures or similar.
>> > 
>> > The clean way to ensure this is to build them in a clean-room
>> > environment in the first place. It would be an unnecessary effort to
>> > implement more sanity checking in katie, and it is computationally
>> > impossible to check for additional/missing features in libary code.
>> So you suggest throwing buildd out of the window and switching to
>> pbuilder, then?
> Something like this is in fact considered. Probably Ubuntu won't use
> pbuilder itself since it is not the most efficient implementation
> around, but rebuilding the buildd chroots from scratch would help to
> eliminate many FTBFS bugs due to polluted chroots.

What do polluted _developer_ builds have to do with any buildd

Sure the buildds sometimes mess up their chroot and people have been
saying this for years, including me. Still the same people haven't
provided patches to make it better, including me. One big reason for
this is the extra time required to do proper cleanup and rebuild of
the chroot on slower arch.

But that has nothing to do with the initial point of polluted
_developer_ builds.

>> (in case you wonder, buildd (which Ubuntu also uses) does /not/
>> guarantee either up-to-dateness or clean chroots)
> For the latter, see above. For the former, lagging behind by at most
> one day (as the buildds do) is certainly acceptable. OTOH, lagging
> behind for several weeks (which is not unreasonable for folks without
> a phat pipe) is certainly not, especially if you are in a period of
> massive transitions.

Buildd never updates unless Build-Depends require it. That means the
build-essential packages will stay at their current version as long as
nothing needs newer ones specificaly. Also any left over packages stay
at their current version. Only the Build-Depends not already installed
on a buildd get installed in their current version (to within 15-30m
delay after upload, not one day) and are removed after the build
(unless that fails and leaves them).

That is usualy a good thing since it prevents buildds from installing
the latest and possibly very broken toolchain packages untill the
buildd admin decides it is save to upgrade.

> Martin


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