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Re: doomsday not DFSG

On Sat, 2005-07-23 at 18:31 +0100, Jon Dowland wrote:


> > Doomsday (or Deng as upstream and I refer to it) is the cleanest
> > implementation in regards separation of the different game logic and
> > features. The plugins are basically .so files, so if you want to play
> > doom, you load the jdoom plugin, you want hexen, you load the jhexen
> > plugin.
> That's true. The heretic/hexen licence terms are so strict as to make
> even this dodgy, but if the code was excluded from Debian, it wouldn't
> be Debian's problem. I expect this confusion would have been avoided if
> the upstream author didn't classify the entirety of the code as GPL in
> sourceforge.net.

True. I have raised this with upstream in the past and they are aware of
the issue. We would prefer to include it with full functionality, but
with the current codebase it is impossible. Upstream has stated that
with the current code it would be more trouble then it is worth to redo
the hexen plugin without the raven code, especially as the current
codebase is more of a prototype to them of what they want their version
2 engine to be. I'm sure though, that if someone had patches they would
be happy to include it.

> > The problem with legacy and the other ports mentioned is that this logic
> > wasn't separated so that they could function without the raven code. 
> Yes I know :( I've tried to persuade the upstream maintainers but it has
> unfortunately been to no avail. The legacy maintainers are some of the
> most polite, however: I received some pretty angry mail from some of the
> others.

Sadly that is the case, part of the reason I ended up doing Deng, was
that upstream was much more approachable about these sorts of things.

> > The biggest problem is that many new wads (game levels) support hexen
> > features in a doom wad (I believe that they call this zdoom format).
> > By supporting zdoom format and not using a plugin they then fail the
> > DFSG test with regards to the raven code.
> I only know of Zdoom that uses this different WAD structure (maybe
> vavoom does too, not too familiar with that port). However, zdoom
> implemented that *before* the heretic/hexen source code release. Despite
> this, I think that there is no interest in relicencing under the GPL in
> the zdoom camp.

Really, Zdoom did that before the hexen release ? As I understand it, I
thought Zdoom format was basically hexen in a doom container.

> > Deng doesn't even support Boom format (an extension to the GPL Doom
> > wad format) that was the cause for a fork some time ago.
> Yup Risen3D - which is closed source :-( I understand that there is work
> on putting boom support into Jdoom now - about time! (as an upstream
> author of freedoom, I've had to field many questions about jdoom and
> boom over the years)

Yeah, Skyjake has given DaniJ CVS access, and now DaniJ is working on
some Boom stuff. I'm looking forward to the freedoom support myself, as
it's something I'd like to play. Every time they release something, I
happily break it in new and exiting ways (I already broke it on amd64, I
just wish I could put it through all of Debian's arches to see what it
breaks on)

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