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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 03:56:18PM -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 07:49:39AM +1000, Matthew Palmer wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 12:47:30AM -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > > proposals, but we have very limited developer resources compared to Debian.
> > 
> > I keep hearing this from Ubuntu, and yet the obvious solution to the problem
> > ("stop doing so damn much") has apparently never been considered.  It seems,
> > from my perspective, that doing a good job on a smaller subset of the free
> > software universe would be better than the current attempts.  Scale over
> > time, don't try to do everything at once and then say "we didn't have enough
> > resources to do it properly".
> You're not suggesting "stop doing so damn much" so much as "spend more
> resources on Debian and fewer resources on Ubuntu".

No, I'm suggesting "stop doing so damn much".  Really.

Ubuntu has committed to being a good community player and sending patches
back upstream.  It's one of it's big selling points in the geek sphere.  But
on several occasions now, I've heard "we can't give back to Debian because
we're too busy trying to Ubuntuise the entireity of Debian main + a bunch of
other stuff with only a few people".

I wouldn't be in the slightest bit worried about Ubuntu not contributing
back to Debian if it was Yet Another Derivative.  There's over a hundred
Debian derived distributions, and most of them probably contribute little or
nothing back to Debian.  I don't mind that, it's a nice thing about free
software.  But Ubuntu is making lots of noise about it being a good
community member and giving back -- but the noises from the trenches are
"too busy, sorry".

In effect, you're asking Debian to do what you said you'd do -- contribute
back -- by chasing patches out of p.u.c/~scott/patches/ or wherever you're
going to stick them in launchpad.

> This is a difficult balance to strike, and one side will be displeased
> with the result regardless.  A "good job" to you means that Ubuntu
> developers do a larger share of the work of getting their changes into
> Debian.  A "good job" to Ubuntu means that the work is more complete and
> correct.

I would imagine that a "good job" to everyone would be matching words with
actions.  Not just "when Malone gets finished" or "when hct is finished" or
whatever, but now.  And if you can't do all of the work you've said you'll
do due to lack of resources, then pick something that you can live without,
and stop doing it.

- Matt

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