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Re: rudeness in general

On Wed, Jan 12, 2005 at 11:48:05AM -0800, Michael K. Edwards wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:09:18 +0100, Helmut Wollmersdorfer
> <helmut.wollmersdorfer@gmx.at> wrote:
> [snip]
> > My few attempts to step into debian as a contributor ended after some
> > hours of senseless discussions or waste of time against unnecessary
> > barriers. Compared against average OSS, or OSS where I contribute,
> > debian seems to be on the bad side - IMHO.
> debian-devel reminds me of alt.folklore.urban once upon a time.  Some
> actual discussion of substance taking place, occasionally on a new
> topic but more often in response to a new bit of evidence or a new
> participant's opinion on a well-worn topic.  Regulars varying from the
> saintly to the obnoxious (sometimes the same person with different
> degrees of caffeination).  Visitors asking naive questions (and
> getting anything from clear, concise answers to cleverly snarky
> half-answers to RTFFAQ), trolling, debating furiously and then
> disappearing, and occasionally scattering pearls of wisdom.  And, of
> course, the occasional meta-discussion on community standards.
> Then again, alt.folklore.urban was trying neither to build a better
> operating system nor to take over the world.  Some Debian Developers
> and other contributors are trying for one or both.  If you wanna join
> the circus, better learn to tell the geeks from the rubes.  ;-)

I don't understand what some people's problem with this is.
debian-devel is mostly a very healthy environment to be in and I
subscribe to all of the above. Very occasionally there is some trolling
or flaming but no more than I'd come to expect on a list of generally
very intelligent people. More than anything, this list seems to be
full of creativity and good will.

Debian-user is a different matter entirely, where there used to be lots
of helpfull people who were quite unfriendly at times (a bit
understating). But after some flaming and especially after the great
politics thread and all of its subthreads (I'm still getting flames,
heh) things really quieted down. 

The only place where you can go these days for some good ol'
debian-style rudeness is #debian on freenode (our "support" channel). A
channel which the smartest people who need help usually avoid. I
have seldom gotten any info without being insulted on there (including
an embarassing yelling match I had a few years ago which I hope everybody
has forgotten about by now). Seriously, if something is going to damage
debian's reputation, it's pointing people to that very channel and
calling it a support channel (more like newbie slaughter grounds).


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