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Re: Please participate in popularity-contest

* Tore Anderson

 >   Furthermore, last I checked the Sarge installer (beta 4, IIRC) the
 >  MTA was for some reason not capable of sending email to remote
 >  destinations.  Enabling the poularity contest would just result in a
 >  cascade of bounces with the message «Mailing to remote domains not
 >  supported».

* Andreas Metzler

 > exim4's default is local-delivery only, because it is the only sane
 > default.

  So, er, the only sane default is «not working»?  I must admit I disagree
 with you there..  What is the rationale for that?

  Anyway, to see if you or I am the odd man out here :-) , I tested the
 packages that are providing mail-transport-agent to see if they worked
 with only their default configuration.  My Debconf priority is set
 to "high" - and the packages was installed by just hitting enter whenever
 I was asked something, and finally send an email to a remote address
 and see if it arrived.


    postfix, courier-mta:  Worked without requiring any interaction.

    exim (v3):  Worked fine, but insisted on me entering the account
        rootmail should be forwarded to.

    sendmail:  Worked fine, but I had explicitly say that I wanted to
        configure it.

    smail:  Insisted on me specifying smarthost (I entered "none") and
        an alias for rootmail just like exim.  After that, it sent mail
        just fine.

    xmail:  Didn't provide /usr/lib/sendmail (policy violation?), but
        mail sent via 'nc localhost smtp' arrived to the remote
        destination as expected.

    emtp-run:  Did not work, probably due to its nature - it requires
        a mail relay to function as far as I understand.

    nullmailer, ssmtp:  Worked, though that was probably just luck -
        they seem to require an smtp relay just like esmtp-run, but
        guessed mail.`dnsdomainname` in the default configuration which
        happens to work here.

    masqmail:  Didn't work, says "not online" in its log.  Given the
        package description I think that it is possibly due to its
        nature, and that if I were able to signal to it that "I am
        online now" somehow, it could possibly be working.

    zmailer:  Didn't work, don't know why - there wasn't any logs or
        obvious error messages that I can see.

    exim4-daemon-*:  Doesn't work - intentionally so as you said.

  So it seems to me that most the other MTA's try to provide a working
 default configuration to the extent possible.  What's so special
 about Exim (v4, to be specific), that makes it undesireable/impossible
 to ship a working configuration as the default?

  In my opinion a sane default setting for a fully-flegded MTA like
 Exim would be to ask if the user had any specific SMTP submission service
 at his ISP or wherever he'd like to use, and if not - mail is sent
 directly using DNS/SMTP.  YMMV.

 > During installation you'll be given the opprtunity to select a different
 > setup of course.

  Of course, I can make Exim do all kinds of stuff if I set my mind to it.
 It is the default settings I care about, the one the user get after
 having done a pinky-finger installation - in my opinion they should,
 whenever possible, provide a working setup.  Currently they don't, and
 sadly probably won't do so for Sarge either, unless the d-i crew
 overrides the default setting.

Kind regards,
Tore Anderson

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