[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: Spam in the lists out of control

Hi Marek!

You wrote:

> > This is a bullshit argument.  You are perfectly free to unsubscribe from
> > the lists (to which you chose to subscribe in the first place) if you
> > don't like their content.  After you unsubscribe, you will get no more
> > messages, no bandwidth is wated, no one is annoyed and you won't have to
> > filter any messages.

> Didn't I write something along those lines above? That it was my choice,
> just as it was my choice to have an email address? I could as well say - you
> are free to change your email address if you don't like to receive my tmda
> challenges. It would be as idiotic as your statement above.

If you really think that having an email address and getting
unsollicited mail is the same thing as getting perfectly on-topic
messages from email lists which you actively went through the process of
subscribing to, then I don't think arguing with you has any use at all.

> Ok, so let me ask you again, to make it clear. If I _manually_ write a
> question to ask you whether you sent a spam to me (to stress it again
> - it will NOT be automatically generated by TMDA) and it will contain
> the same question TMDA would send, would that be spam?

Unless you sent out this messge in bulk, it would not be spam.  The
reason is, of course, that writing al those mails would be much more
annoying to you than to me, so in real life, you would never actually do

> > > So, is the world still black and white? 

> > Yes.  There are people who spam and there are those who don't.

> Congratulations, I wish I had such a simple view of the world. I must assume
> that my bank is a spammer, since their statements sent to me are treated as
> spam by SpamAssassin. I

You really are not getting the point.  SpamAssassin has nothing to do
with it, it's merely a tool to recognise spam in an automated way.  
If the mails you get from your bank are unsollicited and either
automated or bulk (or both), then they are spammers indeed.  Your bank
is not spamming if their are sending you _sollicited_ mails.

> I _never_ said they weren't. If you could _please_ read what you answer to
> more carefully. I've said that they might be annoying, that I understood
> that and I proposed a solution to that problem - which was entirely ignored
> by you as you went on ranting. Address my suggestion and we can discuss.

Your "solution" was simply me ignoring the mails or taking active steps
to get rid of them.  This is exactly what harcore spammer also suggest
(i.e. just delete the Viagra spams if you don't have eraction problems).
_You_ are causing the problem, and therefore _you_ will have to solve

> Gosh, so you are saying that you're sending spam that's scored above 1.0 by
> spamassassin? It is clear you didn't read what I wrote, so I will repeat it:
> TMDA challenges are sent (in our setup) ONLY for mails whose score is
> between 1.0 and 10.0. 

And again: I was not talking about "regular" TMDA challenges, I was
talking about challenges that you send to me as a reaction on spam or
virusses with forged headers (i.e. mails that I had nothing to do with).

> So, if you are NOT a spammer then your message won't be scored in that range
> and you will NOT see any challenge. So, you can just send me a mail and
> reach me in that surprising way.

Except perhaps if my machine in in some blacklist, or if my email
address happens to end in numbers, or my mail happens to trigger some
other silly SA test.

> > So spamming innocent people is "a true cooperation spirit" in your
> > opinion?
> No, cooperation spirit is meeting other people's problems and trying to
> solve them.

So you think I don't have a problem with spam?  
Spam is a very big problem, but TMDA systems are not a solution, as they
only make the problem _worse_.  
They merely shift the problem to other parties, 

> How come you're in Debian if you don't give a fuck about the
> needs/problems of other people? How can you help produce good distribution
> if you have the attitude like that? Some user comes to you and says
> something you don't agree with, and I can already see you going on ranting
> at him that he's wrong, that he should not pester you and should generally
> leave you alone with your own (the only right and accepted) views.
> Can you accept the point of view of others? Can you discuss with other
> people without ranting? Can you?

I am not ranting.  I have only said that by a generaly accepted
definition of spam, certain types of TMDA challenges are spam. 
If you call that ranting, so be it.  

But please also tkae your own style of discussing into account: _you_
are the one calling me an idiot and a fanatic.  _You_ are the one saying
that I "don't give a fuck about other people".  _You_ are the one
implying that I'm not a good Debian developer.

Kind regards,
| Bas Zoetekouw              | GPG key: 0644fab7                     |
|----------------------------| Fingerprint: c1f5 f24c d514 3fec 8bf6 |
| bas@o2w.nl, bas@debian.org |              a2b1 2bae e41f 0644 fab7 |

Reply to: