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Re: Debian needs more buildds. It has offers. They aren't being accepted.

On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 08:48:38PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:

> > > But what's particularly offensive about it, is that there have been
> > > idiotic flamewars like this against James approximately every couple
> > > of weeks for the past few years.
> > It should make you think about it, when this happens regularly. 
> > Do you ever thought of the fact, that there might be a reason for all those
> > "idiotic flamewars". 
> Of course there's a reason for it. If there weren't it wouldn't
> happen. The question is what we want to do about it. One option is
> to say "Yup, attacking the people who do lots of work is great; those
> guys suck and never do enough. They should do more, or get lost.", and
> that seems to me to be what the project is leaning towards. Personally,
> I find that revolting.

Anyway, when you admit that there is a basic reason for those complains,
please make a proposal to solve the problem. 
I'm not interested in attacking people or getting polemic. I want to do my
work as well as other people want. So, there should be a way found how
everyone (ideally) can make their work. 
Right now I've only heard arguments from "this side" to solve the problem:
get some people to help those who seem to be overloaded with work and a
mediator for communication.  

> > Why do you use these word anyway? When other people use
> > the word "idiot(ic)" you judge the whole thread as offensive and
> > unnecessary, but use those kinds of words by yourself to get rude and
> > offensive. 
> No, the thread's unnecessary because there isn't any signficant problem to
> be solved, and it's offensive and counterproductive because it attacks
> people who've volunteered their time and skill and been incredibly
> valuable to the project.

I don't think so. 
Some people already said that they are unable to do their Debian work
because of this. So, this is counterproductive as well. 
> Generally, I think being frank about what you think -- like saying
> someone's acting like an idiot when you think they are -- is a good thing
> in technical discussions. I doubt you'll find anywhere that I've said
> otherwise. But when it crosses the line to constant complaints about
> people and suggestions that the project would be better off without
> their efforts, that's unacceptable, to my mind.

The discussion came rather quick to that point that that was only meant in
buildd related regards. 
> One of the problems with talking to non-developers about things like
> this is they simply don't have a complete understanding about how Debian
> works and their suggestions, like yours above, are flawed because of this.

I'm not sure every DD know who's in the ctte as well. Most of them would
have to look at the website as well, when they are interested in knowing it
- as I would do, when I would really wanted to know it for some reasons. ;)

> Having people who don't know what they're talking about stirring up
> trouble is not the way we should be working.

Working is a nice word. Problem is, that some people can't do their work
because of others. 

Ciao...              // 
      Ingo         \X/

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