Hi, On Mon, Apr 28, 2003 at 05:54:37PM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote: > >>>>> "Jamie" == Jamie Wilkinson <jaq@debian.org> writes: > > Jamie> This one time, at band camp, Sam Hartman wrote: > >> Until you get general consensus on a specific goal, I'm > >> unlikely to accept such changes if they are submitted to me. > >> As a maintainer I want to be able to look at some statement and > >> answer the following questions: > > Jamie> Hi Sam, > > Jamie> I've just filed the bug with my patch to pam. My goal is > Jamie> not specifically a read-only root (although that may be a > Jamie> useful by-product of it) but just to remove any program > Jamie> state out of /etc. It is my firm belief that programs > Jamie> should not be writing anything to /etc. > > I'm not sure I agree with this goal. I don't specifically disagree > yet, but what you are proposing is a change in Unix semantics. If the > rest of the world goes along with this, I will, but I'm somewhat > unconvinced it is the right direction. It's a change, but the meaning of the files that are present in /etc/ won't change. It's only that some more dynamic and volatile files are moved away. The spirit of this idea is already in our FHS. In a lot of cases, its guidelines are already a lot more detailed than those of the commercial unix vendors. Other than that, I think it's safe to say currently that the Free / Open *nixes have become the leading innovators in the field of Unix. I don't think we'll make much progress if we wait till the commercial unixes come up with solutions with the problems we want to solve -- especially if that are problems they care little about, because they cater for a narrower group of users than we do. There are few operating systems that have such broad targets as Debian; the goal is to be the Universal Operating system, no less. Indeed, most Unixes don't run on embedded systems, a lot don't run diskless, most are unsuitable for laptops or even desktops, and so on. > I'd certainly feel better if there were a broader consensus than just > Debian before moving in this direction. I think if Debian comes up with a good idea that's applicable to any Unix, be it Free/Open/NetBSD or the commercial *nixes, it would be a waste to wait with the implementing it till the others adopt it before us. Also, others may not adopt till they have seen a succesful implementation. Incidentally, this also applies to the FHS. > So, for now I'll sit back and see what other people do about /run. If you mean other GNU/Linux distributions or the *BSDs, don't hold your breath. If you mean Debian developers, it seems that a lot of good progress is being made. Cheers, Emile. -- E-Advies - Emile van Bergen emile@e-advies.nl tel. +31 (0)70 3906153 http://www.e-advies.nl
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