On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 12:15:16PM -0700, Michael Cardenas wrote: > On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 12:49:34PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 09:07:48AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote: > > > > > - broken home/end keys in bash in xterm (even in Woody) > > > > You'll have to persuade the upstream bash/libreadline cabal that > > actually supporting DEC VT100 and later terminal emulation is a > > worthwhile thing to do, instead of half-assing their way through it. > > Isn't it the downstream packager's job to take upstream and configure > it in a usable way for most users? It seems that if the patches > discussed earlier in this thread work, then whining about upstream > attitudes is just an excuse for not applying them. You need to know whereof you speak before you shoot off your mouth like this. * VT220+ terminal emualtion is a stateful thing. Certain keys have a one meaning in application-keypad mode, and another meaning in normal mode. Terminal control sequences can (and will) move the terminal in and out of application-keypad mode. /etc/inputrc doesn't know how to express "if the terminal is in application-keypad mode, issue this escape sequence when the Home key is pressed; else issue this other escape sequence". * It is not the downstream packager's job to fix major design flaws in upstream software. * There are times when shortsightedness makes it impossible to please all of the users, because they have conflicting expectations. * Sometimes Debian developers don't have the skills or knowledge necessary to fix a problem. Hypothetically, it may be the case that Debian's bash package maintainer isn't a wizard when it comes to the details of DEC terminal emulation, and/or cannot think of and implement a clever way to track arbitrary states for arbitrary keygroups in libreadline so as to achieve a general solution. Should we really expect so much of our package maintainers, or should we simply expect them to do a good job *packaging* software? I think not; not unless you're willing to underwrite their educational expenses. Whining about Debian developers whining about upstream implies that you expect Debian developers to fix every problem. For instance, I suppose you expect me as XFree86 package maintainer to "configure XFree86 in a usable way for most users" that don't even use video cards that XFree86 supports. If that is true, perhaps you'd like to arrange to get programming documentation from the manufacturers of such video cards, supply me with the hardware in question, and pay me enough money that it would it be a worthwhile use of my time to do such a thing. If *you're* offended by the home/end issue, perhaps *you* should stop complaining and put some of your effort to resolving the limitations of bash/libreadline when it comes to keeping track of the terminal's application-keypad state. Finally, you should be careful to ensure that your words don't get interpreted as coming from the domain identified in the From: line of your message, or the organization identified in your .signature, if your words aren't to be taken as position statements from that company. -- G. Branden Robinson | I'm sorry if the following sounds Debian GNU/Linux | combative and excessively personal, branden@debian.org | but that's my general style. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | -- Ian Jackson
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