Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0
On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 08:25:47PM +0200, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 08, 2002 at 11:47:42PM +0200, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
> > It's your own fault. You choosed to run non-free software, now you get
> > the consequences. Debian doesn't support vmware, so go somewhere else
> > with your vmware problems. (Debian does support plex86 and bochs, BTW)
>
> As this might be a bit too offensive I apologize if you read it that
> way. Here is an alternative wording which says what I actually meant
> (I never try to write a mail quickly just before I got to bed):
>
> This problem is very common for non-free software. If you want to
> avoid such problems, you could try one of the free alternatives in
> Debian, plex86 and bochs. Those might have other problems (like being
> slower) but you probably won't have the same problems you're having
> now. We can also help you with problems you are having with plex86 and
> bochs. If you insist on using vmware, we can't help you, you should go
> to the vmware guys when you've got problems.
>
<mindless rant>
I think you totally miss the point. Free software is about choice. What
you are saying is that it is okay for a library to change in a way that
breaks software which I *choose* to run. The fact that software is non-free
is irrelevant. I *choose* to run it. I made an informed choice. I looked
at the alternatives, and made a decision. You look like you are wanting to
remove my ability to make that choice.
>From reading this thread, it looks to me almost as if you would advocate a
system whereby Debian refused to run any non-free software at all.
The free alternatives to VMware are not really all that good at all I am
afraid. Development on plex86 has pretty much died since Kevin changed
jobs. bochs was never really an alternative at all, its aims are somewhat
different.
VMware might be non-free, but it is damn good. When a libc6 change breaks
it, then asking why is not *ever* a bad thing. Expecting changes in libc6
to not break things is sensible. If it does break stuff then we should look
at why.
If it turns out that the breakage is unavoidable, or serves a greater good
then fine. I don't really understand this case well enough to know if that
is the case or not. The breakage is/was deemed necessary by the libc6
maintainer (presumably) and I tend towards trusting Ben's judgement.
Your "advocacy" looks like so much wind and piss in all honesty. You do no
favours either to yourself or to the free software movement by it. You look
and sound like a rabid, unthinking, kneejerking moron. That is usually a
description reserved for RMS :)
Seriously examine what it is that you are saying. What it looks like to me
(at least, probably others too) is "You run non-free software, so fuck off,
we hate you, we hate your mother, we hate your sister's cat. Go whinge to
the people who made the non-free software, because they should have forseen
when they wrote their software a couple of years ago that we were going to
break it."
When I joined Debian I did so with the understanding that "Our priorities
are our users and free software". Free software is not served at all by
your silly rants, and our users are definitely not served by firstly having
the software they *choose* to run break, and secondly being insulted and
belittled by you for making that choice.
One way or the other, VMware not working any more is a bug somewhere.
Whether it is a bug in libc6 or a bug in VMware itself. Since VMware has
been running on this machine essentially without change for over a year, and
a new version of libc6 has just been installed, then surely I can be
forgiven for asking questions of libc6 first?
I know that it is very easy to be infected by the rabidity of "non-free is
bad by definition -- people who use it are either evil or misguided". All I
can do is assure you that most people grow out of that. I *choose* to use
non-free software of many kinds. I am also forced to do so ssometimes. I
will *not* have someone try to make me feel evil, stupid or misguided
because of it.
</mindless rant>
Cheers,
Stephen
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