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Re: grisu and DDTS



On Thu, Oct 04, 2001 at 02:58:07PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 04, 2001 at 07:50:44AM -0500, Vince Mulhollon wrote:
> > I18N of a description by someone else, in my opinion, is no different than
> > a NMU change.  If you think there is a difference, what is it?
> 
> Translated descriptions are not part of the package (yet) and can be
> updated completely asyncrhonously from the package itself.

sorry, but this is not 'us' problem.

If I get a whislist bug like 'please add this feature', this feature
are not (yet) part of the package. And maybe I (as maintainer) can't
add it now. 

read the notification as whislist bug report for a new feature. 

(maybe the maintainers should 'reassign' this bugs to dpkg and/or
apt?)

> > The response will merely be to quote the NMU policy that developers should
> > be informed when their package changes.
> 
> Only of the NMU policy applies, which it does not, because:
> 
> * there is no file in the package to patch;
> * no upload of the package is necessary for the translation to be made
>   available

but some users use the translation already. We have now translated
Packages files for the users and the translators. We have po files
now. Some users don't see the english descriptions already. This is
all like a NMU...

And if the ftp master change the override file, the maintainer get a
notification too... This is also like a NMU. 

> > By that definition, I suppose every bug report and this email itself
> > is spam, which is silly.  Also, I have not heard complaints about the
> > equally automated BTS emails.
> 
> I don't get email from the BTS unless I file or manipulate a bug report.

wrong, If someone open a bug you get (as maintainer) normal a mail
from the bts. 

Maybe the ddts should send the notifications to the bts as 'whislist'
bugs? (I don't propose this. I only ask you...)

and btw: I get some mails today. And in this mails I get _this_
         proposal... Yust for your information.

And if you maintain a debian package, you get mails per
@packages.debian.org. This is not unsolicitedly. If you don't like
this mails, don't maintain debian packages...

> > The whole issue is all a false front for people whom hate I18N, and will
> > not let the truth stand in the way of their hatred.
> 
> Irrational, illogical, and false.

NO. 

> I, for instance, have pleaded on multiple occasions for more
> translations of the debconf templates in my X packages, and yet the
> translators for most languages have been inactive for months.   Still,
> when I get them, I typically update my packages with them quickly, and
> thank the submitters.

this 'inactive for months' is a problem of the framework. I post this
already in may first mail! 

If you have translation, you must have a tracking system. And the ddts
make this. This is one of the main points of the ddts. Maybe you
should translate some descriptions and you see this is all running. 

If some maintainer change a english description now and this
translation is already translated, we have had a new translation in
some days (this show the experience). 

> Want to help with i18n and l10n?  Help translate debconf templates.  I
> can't do anything with the translated package descriptions at present,
> but I'll be happy to incorporate them once there is a mechanism for me
> to do so.

This was my first translation project in debian. Without a real
framework, only a web page for some coordination. (see
http://auric.debian.org/~grisu/debian_translation) And we get >75% of
german translation as a result.

But we don't get a real tracking. If debconf templates changed, the
translator don't get a notification. This was bad. And for the next
project (the descriptions) I write a coordination server.


If I have more time, I will use the ddts also for the debconf
translation. And for this the ddts will send bugreport to the bts. 

And maybe we have sometimes a server, which coordinate all the
translations of README.Debian files, debian man pages, debian info
files, etc.

The descriptions are only the first step. And the first importent step
after the debconfs...

> What I *DON'T* want is dozens of automatic, unsolicited mails in my
> inbox notifying me about something I can't do anything useful with.

you can do something with it: 
 - you can collect it
 - you can check it in a coarser way 
 - you can check it, if you know one or more languages
 - you can think about translations and change/write some patches to
   use this all.



Gruss
Grisu
-- 
Michael Bramer  -  a Debian Linux Developer http://www.debian.org
PGP: finger grisu@db.debian.org  -- Linux Sysadmin   -- Use Debian Linux
"Demzufolge ist Windows wie Nutella: furchtbar suess und schlecht fuer 
 die Zaehne."  -- Norbert Kunka

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