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Re: developer status again

On Fri, Oct 30, 1998 at 09:46:28AM -0500, warp@whitestar.soark.net wrote:
> >  d) If you want to speed up things, why don't you work on things that
> >     are really urgently needed?
> > 
> (Grouping all 3 together)
> >     . We have no cd-creation tool.
> >     . We have no definitive way of splitting the main archive.
> >     . We have nobody working on this issue.
> Not everyone has the disk space (over a gig) to try messing with this
> stuff, and its kinda hard to work on such things if you can't have even
> a partial copy to work with..

It's quite easy to either ask for an account on a mirror machine or to
ask for an ls-lR or find file to work with.  Thus I don't accept this
argument.  To make up ones mind one doesn't need real access to the
files - although it would be helpful.

> >     . We have unmet packages dependencies.
> Last time I tried tracking this stuff down and filing bug reports I did
> not get a very friendly response, granted it got semi-fixed in the end,
> however....

Please dig into them individually and talk to the relevant
maintainers.  I posted an untested list this morning or yesterday and
got some positive responses that some issues are already addressed but
not uploaded, which will happen tonight.  That's part of the work that
has to be done and I'm sure it's not me who needs to do this.

> >     . We have packages in main that depend or recommend packages
> >       outside of main.
> Again, attempting to file bug reports against a number of packages at a
> time for the same reason has not been taken well, perhaps I somehow went
> about it the wrong way, however..

Indeed, you should contact the group first.  If it is common oppinion
to file bugs, go ahead and do so.  If it is not, get in touch with the
maintainers and discuss the issue.

> >     . There is still a lot of work to do for the boot-floppies.  I
> >       begin to realize that *only* Enrique is working on this.
> Yeks, I'll look into seeing how I can help with that, hmm, now if I only
> had a system I could install on over and over and over...
> (I'm actually working on one, however...)

Well, I could use one, too.  I'm very happy to be in the position to
have access to such a system every once in a while...  Now would be a
good time for it, but currently I don't have any such system.

> >     Work on this and present us with solutions and then come back and
> >     nag the people who are trying to resolve these issues instead of
> >     processing a new maintainer who would - in the worst case - only
> >     introduce new bugs.
> And in most cases would actually be able to help with the above mentioned
> problems..

If so, point this out and if the argumentation is suficient the
priority of your request will be increased.

> >  e) What makes you think that your tiny package is more important than
> >     the other 2500 packages in main?
> Who is to judge which package is the most important?


> > Zephaniah wrote:
> > > Interesting, as NO ONE seems to know who actually does it...
> > 
> > So you want to join a group of nobody's?  Give me a reason for that.
> I've been trying to find a list of who actually handles the new
> maintainer requests, I've asked people on the irc channel, I've looked
> on the web pages, and I still can't find it, perhaps I'm missing
> something really obvious, but no one who I have talked to actually knows
> who all actually works on the new maintainer requests..

Need a receipe?  Go to the debian web server, go to the develppers
corner, go to the contact page.  This is difficult?  Then I wonder how
you want to understand the DFSG and especially the packaging manuals -
which *are* difficult to read since Ian Jackson wrote them.  On IRC,
if you ask on #debian on irc.debian.org several people know who
handles nm.

> Its a little hard to take over packages before your a registered
> developer..

Blah!  Reality check please.  You can't talk to the maintainers?  You
can't pick the source from a Debian mirror and work on it?  Then I'm
sorry, but I can't help!

> (Note that I have /not/ submitted my request yet, I'm waiting to get a
> few more signatures on my key from people who verified I'm me at the
> ALS, have stu's already tho)

Oh, I thought you have... but then again, new maintainer currently is
only dropped into the appropriate box.

> > Zephaniah wrote:
> > > How about opening the positions for handling new maintainers?
> > 
> > Huh?  If people want to work on a particular job they are always
> > invited to ask for help.  Wrt. new-maintainer this has happened a year
> > ago when we took over it because *nothing* happened.  Like I said
> > above, preparing the new release has a much higher priority.  Wait and
> > become happily a part of the project or continue to spread FUD and
> > retract your submission.
> Its sounding like you could use some help, I've not seen any requests
> for help, so I suggested a clear way for people to offer help with this,
> keeping in mind that it was mentioned that we don't want just anyone
> doing the job....

Generally we can handle new-maintainer without a problem.  That's why
you didn't see a request for help.  Currently there are too much tasks
that are more important.  It will clear in a few days - when a) the
freeze has taken place, b) some more packges are fixed and c) I
finished my other Debian related job.  [which has been postponed
today, *sigh*]

Re request for help, I wrote several times, that I *need* help with
Roxen, since I *can't* maintain it on my own and I also stated several
times that we need a new debian-cd.  I have received *NO* help.  (Re
Roxen, there is one person in .se who was willing to help and who has
contacted me privately - after an upload or something).

> > > First someone steps up and says they want to, then a vote is called (or
> > > it is handled the same way policy changes now are), if the vote passes
> > > then they get the position, simple..
> > 
> > Aha, so you want your request be processed in half a year?  Fine with
> > me.
> *blinks*
> Erm, I must not have been entirely clear, the vote and sure is for new
> people wanting to help out with new maintainer requests...

Did you notice that it is tried for several months to vote our
constitution?  No, it hasn't taken place yet.  Yes, there are
important people missing whose positions needs to be re-appointed.
Don't believe voting a new new-maintainer team would be a) faster and
b) earlier.  Maybe this wasn't clear.

> > > I'd offer to submit a proposal for a policy change however I'm not a
> > > developer yet.. *cough*
> > 
> > Isn't everybody able to make *proposals*?  Wether the policy team
> > accepts them as regular topic is up to them.
> Was not positive about this..

You should think positive all the time.  If you don't get the expected
responce, try again but differently.

> > I'm currently preparing Debian for a large bookware distribution in
> > Germany.  This will spread the words of free software to *many* new
> > people who have never gotton in touch with free software, partially
> > even with non-ms software, before.  Don't you think this is important?
> > I feel that this is soo much important that I for myself spend *all*
> > of my spare time to this task and to the freeze thing and reduce
> > *everything* (including sleep).  If you don't like it, your problem.
> I don't have a problem with this, as long as your not the ONLY person
> who can manage the other matters....

I'm not.  But the other new-maintainer people are in a similar
situation currently. ;-(  Anyway, I don't think it's good to introduce
more new packages (especially from new people) to the current
to-be-frozen distribution.



Individual Network e.V.     .     Martin Schulze     .        OrgaTech
joey@office.individual.net            _/              joey@orgatech.de
Geschaeftszeit: Di+Mi+Fr, 15-18 Uhr  _/            Tel: (0441) 9834715

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