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Re: [RFC] Exim as standard Debian MTA?

>>"Andreas" == Andreas Jellinghaus <aj@dungeon.inka.de> writes:

 >> This is not windows. I would expect to see a SMTP server on
 >> any UNIX installation. The novice can still ttally ignore the server
 >> and use netscape, but we should make it easier for them to learn (why
 >> would a novice try to use Linux, unless they were willing to learn?)

 Andreas> learning is why people want to use linux. but step by step
 Andreas> and not 0 to 100.  debian is a 0 to 100 system, for example
 Andreas> you can't install many programs without answering
 Andreas> configuration questions. to learn what the program is and
 Andreas> how it works, you would need to read the manual first, what
 Andreas> you can not do without first answering question. this is
 Andreas> hard for learners.

	This has nothing to do with installing a MTA. You may choose
 to install an MTA, and ignore it and use netscape, if you wish.

	As far as the 0-100 characterization, that is a matter of
 personal perception. Any reasonably flexible and powerful tool has a
 learning curve. And most UNIX lovers have tacitly agreed that the
 flexibility was worth the learning curve.

	I believe that you can't remove a learning curve without also
 removing the power and flexibility.

 Andreas> you also expect some mail client like elm, mutt, emacs, gnus
 Andreas> or whatever on any unix installation. and these require an
 Andreas> MTA, so you get one. you also expect cron on every unix
 Andreas> installation, and cron will require an mta, so you get one.

	Yes. What is your problem here?

 Andreas> but debian isn't about what you think a unix should
 Andreas> have. that way linux will never get to the desktop, because
 Andreas> you are not used to work with desktop machines, rather unix
 Andreas> workstations.

	Then I think we should not be worrying about getting to the
 desktop. I use Linux on my primary machine. If that makes it a
 workstation, and not a desktop, I think we should concentrate on the

	I strongly object to dumbing down Debian for the sake of
 market share. 

 Andreas> back to the topic : it's so easy to add an mta.  everybody
 Andreas> who want's an mta, will also select a program like mutt,
 Andreas> elm, cron, at or so, that needs and mta. there will be no
 Andreas> case, where someone is without an mta, when he needs one.
 Andreas> but with a mta in standard priority, lots of people will get
 Andreas> one, who don't need it. i don't think this is a good idea.

	I would prefer an MTA to be installed by default. People can
 then choose to ignorte it totally. Debian is not windows; I would
 prefer it to be a workstation OS if that is what it takes to not dumb
 it down.


 A day without orange juice is like a day without orange juice.
Manoj Srivastava  <srivasta@acm.org> <http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/>
Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E

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