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Re: ae's vi attempt on boot disks stomps on real vi symlink

On May 11, Ryan Smith-Roberts wrote
> > 	So you can install a fairly complex system as painlessly as
> >  possible. Though the Debian dpkg system is by far the best package
> Having vi does not fall under 'as painlessly as possible'??
> >  management system I have seen, it _is_ quite complex, and it takes a
> >  number of subsystems to be at least minimally functional to enable
> >  the installation to continue. Unfortunately, peoples favorite editors
> >  would bloat the installation disks a lot.
> vi is not just some people's favorite editor.  It is the (second) most
> common Unix editor (ed beats it[1]).  The _most_ common visual Unix
> editor.
> Hmm, let's take a poll of some non-Debian systems which are in-house here 
> (none of which were installed by me):
> Solaris- yup, vi's there.  How about Emacs?  Nope.  ae?  Nope.
> SunOS- there it is.  Emacs?  What's that?  ae?  Kidding, right?
> FreeBSD- why, there it is.  Emacs?  On one system, but installed by the
>    admin in /usr/local.  ae?  No.
> Hacked-together elderly Linux box once called Slackware- you bet, vi's
>    there.  Emacs doesn't work (it's in /usr/local here too) and there's
>    no ae.
> Some systems we don't have (now) but I have experience with:
> Hpux- yes
> SCO- yes
> OSF/1- yes
> Ultrix- yes
> Irix- yes
> Would you agree that vi deserves a little higher standing than just some
> people's favorite editor?
> Also, you would rather have 'factor' and 'tic' and 'infocmp' and 'od' and
> 'pr' and a bunch of /usr/doc READMEs and Changelogs and a whole HORDE of
> manpages (when man-db isn't even on the install disks) than vi?
> The install disks are horribly bloated as they are.  One more package that
> makes installs easier for say a third of the people who do Debian installs
> is hardly going to be noticed.  Especially given that at the current size
> of the install disks nvi can be included without adding another disk to
> the install set.  elvis-minimal would be lost in the noise.
> > 	However, my wife (the biologist) also reminds me that the
> >  species which stopped adapting (and learning) have quite often gone
> >  extinct. 
> I would rather adapt to and learn about things which are interesting and
> have use to me beyond the Debian install phase.  Such as vi.  Such as
> innd.  Such as gated.  Such as sendmail.  Such as Ciscos.  Such as perl. 
> There is a long, long list of things I'd rather be doing than peering at
> the upper half of ae's interface trying to ferret out which key to push to
> write and exit (which I did barely know up until vi started running
> ae-vi[2] instead of ae.  Also, where's the Emacs ae emulation mode?  axe
> emulation? How about nedit emulation?). 
> > Ryan> I thought Debian was supposed to make your life easier?
> > 
> > 	For the largest number of people. I think we may have far many
> >  more ``customers'' who would prefer ae, or at least not object to the
> >  absence of vi/emace/XEmacs/axe/nedit et al.
> If it costs 60k or thereabouts, and cuts interactive install time by
> two-thirds for say 30% of the people who install Debian, isn't it worth
> it?  I would guess that's a much bigger payoff than most of the stuff
> in the base system, such as 'top'.

Could we just stop this stupid discussion ?

I never had to use ae during my several installations of Debian
because after installing the base system dselect was started and I
installed whatever I wanted. The only point where I possibly would
need a editor during the initial installation is to edit the
ppp-related files for dpkg-ftp. If you are installing from CDROM,
mounted filesystems, floppies, etc. you won't need any editor to start
installation. So what's the point in fighting over a editor on the
install disks :-/

I had to use ae when I used the rescue disk as just that: to rescue a
system. I doubt there is space on the rescue disk for vi. If you think
you will be able to provide a rescue disk with generic kernel, root
image, vi and everything else what one needs for rescuing a system you
are welcome to provide a new Debian package and participate in the



Christian Meder, email: christian.meder@utoronto.ca

What's the railroad to me ?
I never go to see
Where it ends.
It fills a few hollows,
And makes banks for the swallows, 
It sets the sand a-blowing,
And the blackberries a-growing.
                      (Henry David Thoreau)

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