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Re: ae's vi attempt on boot disks stomps on real vi symlink

[This is my final message to this Jihad]
>>"Ryan" == Ryan Smith-Roberts <rsr@lab.net> writes:

Manoj> So you can install a fairly complex system as painlessly as
Manoj> possible. Though the Debian dpkg system is by far the best package

Ryan> Having vi does not fall under 'as painlessly as possible'??

	On the installation system, for Pete's sake? No, I think
 not. How often have you needed any editor at that stage in the
 first place? can you quote any example? One can just fire up dselect
 (actually, it is fired up for one) and load vi first thing that one
 does anyway, so why this vehemence?

Manoj> management system I have seen, it _is_ quite complex, and it takes
Manoj> a number of subsystems to be at least minimally functional to
Manoj> enable the installation to continue. Unfortunately, peoples
Manoj> favorite editors would bloat the installation disks a lot.

Ryan> vi is not just some people's favorite editor.  It is the
Ryan> (second) most common Unix editor (ed beats it[1]).  The _most_
Ryan> common visual Unix editor.

	And we provide several variants in Debian. But not between
 installing the base disks (which gets you a system useful only for
 installing the rest of Debian) and installing the rest, when you may
 have all the vi implementations you desire.

Ryan> Hmm, let's take a poll of some non-Debian systems which are
Ryan> in-house here (none of which were installed by me):

Ryan> Solaris- yup, vi's there.  How about Emacs?  Nope.  ae?
Ryan> Nope. SunOS- there it is.  Emacs?  What's that?  ae?  Kidding,
Ryan> right? FreeBSD- why, there it is.  Emacs?  On one system, but
Ryan> installed by the admin in /usr/local.  ae?  No. Hacked-together
Ryan> elderly Linux box once called Slackware- you bet, vi's there.
Ryan> Emacs doesn't work (it's in /usr/local here too) and there's no
Ryan> ae.

Ryan> Some systems we don't have (now) but I have experience with:
Ryan> Hpux- yes SCO- yes OSF/1- yes Ultrix- yes Irix- yes

	During initial install? I don't believe you. I know for a fact
 that it is not on Ultrix, Digital Unix, and HPUX untill the
 installation is completed. Never done an install, have you? How many
 of them have vi when you bring them up single user? Sheesh!

Ryan> Would you agree that vi deserves a little higher standing than
Ryan> just some people's favorite editor?

	During initial install? I disagree. vi is on Debian, as soon
 as you install Debian. During installation, sorry, we have ae. 

Ryan> Also, you would rather have 'factor' and 'tic' and 'infocmp' and
Ryan> 'od' and 'pr' and a bunch of /usr/doc READMEs and Changelogs and
Ryan> a whole HORDE of manpages (when man-db isn't even on the install
Ryan> disks) than vi?

Ryan> The install disks are horribly bloated as they are.  One more
Ryan> package that makes installs easier for say a third of the people
Ryan> who do Debian installs is hardly going to be noticed.
Ryan> Especially given that at the current size of the install disks
Ryan> nvi can be included without adding another disk to the install
Ryan> set.  elvis-minimal would be lost in the noise.

	Please submit the installation disks on Incoming for peer
 review. We will be glad for your help.

 If you want to program in C, program in C.  It's a nice language.  I
 use it occasionally...  :-) --Larry Wall in <7577@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Manoj Srivastava               <url:mailto:srivasta@acm.org>
Mobile, Alabama USA            <url:http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/>

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