Re: init systems?
Hallo Paul,
On Thu, Jun 09, 2016 at 10:40:22AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 7:07 AM, Klaus Knopper wrote:
>
> > Because of attempting to keep complexity as low as possible, thus
> > avoiding side-effect errors by automized parallelisms, Knoppix uses
> > sysvinit with dependency fixes that allow co-existence with systemds
> > library components now required by Debian, and just a few bash scripts
> > for system startup instead of the entire /etc/init.d/* suite provided by
> > packages.
>
> That sounds a bit like file-rc.
/etc/init.d/knoppix-autoconfig for system startup (it will evaluate the
desired runlevel, so I don't need individual scripts for runnning with
or without X), and /etc/init.d/knoppix-halt for shutdown/reboot with
clean unmount of all file systems.
/etc/rc.local contains local changes and services added by the user. It
is a very, very simple system and boots up faster than systemd,
especially when using slow media like DVDs (Knoppix: 45seconds from DVD,
systemd: > 2 minutes from DVD due to excessive seeks when parallelizing).
> > Plans for a Raspberry Pi Knoppix version are to use the (sysv-)init in
> > busybox instead of systemd.
>
> Interesting, I've never heard of the busybox init being used in normal
> Linux distros. I'd be interested in hearing more about this.
The current testing /etc/inittab for busybox init for Raspi-Knoppix looks liks this:
::sysinit:/etc/init.d/knoppix-autoconfig.sh
::respawn:-/bin/su -l -c "startx /mnt-system/knoppix-startx.sh -- :0 -dpi 96 -br -noreset -nolisten tcp" pi
ttyAMA0::respawn:-/bin/bash
::shutdown:/sbin/killall5 -15
::shutdown:/bin/sleep 5
::shutdown:/sbin/killall5 -9
::shutdown:/bin/busybox umount -a -r
::shutdown:/bin/busybox poweroff -f
init is only used here for controlled system startup and shutdown, while
systemd aims to integrate many additional services such as logging and
session control, which makes it very complex and difficult to keep track
of new and potentially unwanted features. That's why I stay with a
simple init for Knoppix, not because I would'n like systemd.
But I think it is a bug that most Debian packages such as
network-manager won't work and don't even install correctly if systemds
own idea of session or "seat" management isn't running. This is more
work for me for workarounds. Unfortunately, I did not find the time yet
for identifying the reason for LXDE telling me "no session ID for user
knoppix" all the time when completely removing systemd, so I keep the
systemd libraries and systemd-shim around for now to avoid dependency
problems, but systemd isn't actually running.
> > Knoppix (the Intel/AMD version) currently maintains its own sysvinit
> > package based on the last working version found in Debian.
>
> Is the sysvinit package that is still in Debian not working? If not it
> would be great if you could file a bug.
The Debian sysvinit-core package was disfunctional about a year ago,
when I tried last. But the real bug is that there is no choice anymore
other than systemd if you want to keep network-manager or gnome, because
of dependency problems that I currently circumvent with a
dependency-only package that fakes systemds presence. Not elegant, but
it works.
> > URL? (Just as a reminder to those who have not visited the page for a
> > long time...)
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census/Knoppix
> If you could sync it with the template, that would be good as several
> items have been added in semi-recent times:
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/CensusTemplate
Thanks, will update soon.
Regards
-Klaus
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