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Re: roaraudio dispute

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 11:17:48PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> On 12-07-20 at 03:42pm, Ian Jackson wrote:
> > Hi, I'm a member of the Debian Technical Committee.
> > 
> > Apropos of the dispute about celt which has been referred to the TC 
> > I'm trying to understand the background to the removal of the 
> > dependency from ices2 to roaraudio.
> > 
> > I have seen this:
> >    http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=676541
> > and the package changelog:
> >    * Stop build-depending on libroar-dev or suggesting roaraudio-server.
> >      Requested by Ron Lee.
> > 
> > But I don't seem to be able to find the request from Ron.  Can you,
> > Jonas, please forward me a copy of the communications from Ron to you
> > relating to this change ?
> > 
> > I trust Ron (CC'd) will have no objection to this.

No, I have no (belated) objection, thanks for asking.  Everything I've said
and done with respect to this I've tried to keep as public as possible.

I actually wish you'd do the same, since being told "you've spoken privately
to people" and they "said things", isn't really the sort of transparency I'd
like to see for project decision making.

These are purely technical issues - there is no reason whatsoever to be
engaging in Behind Closed Doors discussion of anything about them.

> > I see that Philipp asked you to undo the change and you have declined, 
> > as is indeed your prerogative.  I assume that that's because you agree 
> > with Ron's reasoning, but without seeing Ron's reasoning, it is 
> > difficult to understand your decision.
> It is both that I agree with Ron's reasoning and that the linkage 
> against libroar in the first place was a quite bad experience and I had 
> already considered dropping it again (as can be seen in below 
> conversation, where at first I don't even realize that Ron's reasoning 
> is Celt removal but I assumed it was just libroar being unneeded and 
> having annoyingly strong dependencies).

This actually wasn't just about celt.

Bastian Blank (among quite a few others over many months) was also, uh,
"upset" shall we say, about roar dragging DECnet in to the debian installer.
Both Philipp and Patrick were quite clear, and repeatedly insistent, about
voicing their opinion that they would rather have roar removed than fix
these things in roar itself.

I presume they believed that would never happen, since it was only after
we were in a position to be able to do that when they changed their tune
on this for celt if not also DECnet.

My only role in this was being the sucker that drew the short straw to
do the legwork.  Given the abuse I've received since, I won't be
volunteered for that side of preparing releases again in a hurry.

Trying to conflate this with the mumble issue however is Not Helpful.
They are entirely unrelated except by the thinnest of threads.

Unlike mumble, roar has no more excuse to still be using celt than it
does to be dragging DECnet on to our installer, and many important
reasons why it should not.  Unlike roar, mumble also actually has
users other than its author.


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