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Re: roaraudio dispute

On 12-07-20 at 03:42pm, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Hi, I'm a member of the Debian Technical Committee.
> Apropos of the dispute about celt which has been referred to the TC 
> I'm trying to understand the background to the removal of the 
> dependency from ices2 to roaraudio.
> I have seen this:
>    http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=676541
> and the package changelog:
>    * Stop build-depending on libroar-dev or suggesting roaraudio-server.
>      Requested by Ron Lee.
> But I don't seem to be able to find the request from Ron.  Can you,
> Jonas, please forward me a copy of the communications from Ron to you
> relating to this change ?
> I trust Ron (CC'd) will have no objection to this.
> I see that Philipp asked you to undo the change and you have declined, 
> as is indeed your prerogative.  I assume that that's because you agree 
> with Ron's reasoning, but without seeing Ron's reasoning, it is 
> difficult to understand your decision.

It is both that I agree with Ron's reasoning and that the linkage 
against libroar in the first place was a quite bad experience and I had 
already considered dropping it again (as can be seen in below 
conversation, where at first I don't even realize that Ron's reasoning 
is Celt removal but I assumed it was just libroar being unneeded and 
having annoyingly strong dependencies).

At 2012-06-02 (CET) in #debian-multimedia...:
(14:44:00) ron: jonas: we'd like to have ices2 drop the dependency on libroar2 for wheezy.  do you see any major problem with that?
(14:44:15) jonas: nope
(14:44:31) jonas: not dropping it completely
(14:44:54) jonas: but playing weird games with recommending instead of depending because libroar maintainers are on crack is a problem, yes
(14:45:19) ron: yeah, we're hoping for people to drop it completely at this stage
(14:45:38) ron: I've just fixed libao, openal1 fix is in the works.  that just leaves ices2 and cmus
(14:46:20) themill: remembering that recommends are installed by default, s/recommend/suggest/, I guess
(14:46:29) ron: do you have time to do that?  I can send a patch/do an NMU if that will be helpful
(14:46:32) themill: .o0(libraries shouldn't recommend things)
(14:46:33) jonas: themill: correct
(14:47:00) jonas: themill: libraries shouldn't depend on daemons!
(14:47:14) jonas: nor recommend on them
(14:47:17) themill: probably true too
(14:47:27) ron: or DECnet, or obsolete codecs etc. etc. :(
(14:47:35) jonas: that's what is (or has been) on crack with libroar!
(14:48:09) jonas: problem is not obsoletion but wrong direction of pulling in stuff
(14:48:41) themill: I've long contemplated that apt should special case recommends for section:libs and just ignore them.
(14:49:05) ron: they're refusing to drop the dep on celt, despite the experiment that was now being over, and nobody distributing a version compatible to what we have
(14:49:46) jonas: ron: fair enough - libroar is on *both* crack and weed!
(14:50:08) ron: true that.
(14:50:36) ron: we've been trying to ask them nicely for a month now, and getting nothing but insane, utterly untrue excuses :(
(14:50:59) jonas: ron: no need for a patch, but I don't have time this very minute. Please do ping me later tonight (european tz)
(14:51:48) ron: cool.  that's ok.  it doesn't have to be done _now_, just in time for everything to be done for wheezy, so later tonight would be Great!
(14:52:08) ron: ... which only leaves me with cmus then.
(14:52:25) ron: should I send a bug for that, or is there someone here involved with it
(14:52:35) ron: alessio doesn't seem to be on IRC afaict
(14:52:37) jonas: a bugreport would be nice
(14:52:58) ron: with a patch too, or just a request?
(14:53:04) jonas: just the request
(14:53:18) ron: awesome, will do that now.  Thanks Much!
(14:53:22) jonas: it is simple changes - the clever part is being aware, so thanks for that!
(22:59:42) ron: looks like cmus got done already, which is awesome
(23:00:40) ron: I've got a couple of other packages I need to do some quick things on, and then I'll do mumble and file the RoM on celt
(23:05:10) ron: we might be bugging you soon about opus support in libshout and icecast :)
(23:05:21) ron: but I think the icecast patches still need some work
(23:18:22) jonas: why patches? aren't they upstream so should rather release new upstream version?
(23:18:34) jonas: or is that what you mean?
(23:19:12) ron: yeah, that's what I meant.  there'll be a new release for that, but some of it is still work in progress
(23:19:55) ron: libshout might just need the version we have in experimental to move to unstable, but I'll need to double-check with rillian on what he needed there
(23:24:50) ron: looks like libshout 2.3.1 is the one that adds opus support.  and yeah that one is released
(23:25:13) ron: (but I'd rather you get the ices2 tweak done first :)
(23:25:47) ron: if all goes to plan, I'll file the RoM for celt tomorrow now
(23:26:22) ron: or rather "later today", but after a needed sleep
(23:35:02) ***jonas will look at libshout now
(23:35:16) jonas: whoops - ices2!
(23:36:25) ron: :)
(01:03:19) CIA-13: debian-pkg-multimedia: dr * r06efb3f ices2/debian/control.in: Use anonscm.debian.org for Vcs-Browser field.
(01:03:19) CIA-13: debian-pkg-multimedia: dr * r5ffd7e7 ices2/debian/ (copyright rules): Extend copyright of Debian packaging to cover recent years.
(01:03:20) CIA-13: debian-pkg-multimedia: dr * r4788670 ices2/debian/ (control.in rules): Stop build-depending on libroar-dev or suggesting roaraudio-server. Requested by Ron Lee.
(01:03:22) CIA-13: debian-pkg-multimedia: dr * rb632f48 ices2/debian/ (changelog control copyright_hints): Update changelog, control file and copyright hints.
(01:04:09) jonas: ron: ices2 FTBFS currently, so I cannot release the prepared changes :-(
(01:04:25) jonas: I've filed a bugreport against libxml2-dev hoping that is to blame


 - Jonas

 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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