On 08/29/2018 05:28 PM, Paul Dejean wrote:
> I honestly don't get it. Why is casulana so necessary for building these
> images going forward. What kicked off this thread was me demonstrating
> that machine images could be built in gitlab on google cloud runners
> that have nested virt support.
Let me put it the other way around.
Why should we build on external machines, when we do have all the needed
hardware at our disposal? I don't get it...
On 08/29/2018 05:34 PM, Paul Dejean wrote:
> Also would like to add that by using cloud runners we circumvent a lot
> of these issues such as all the shared permissions needed, the having
> to set up runners by hand (assuming we make an infra as code repo) and
> so on.
You may as well use Windows, so you don't need to build your own
operating system.
On 08/29/2018 05:47 PM, Luca Filipozzi wrote:
> I view these as settled discussion
So do I. Can we move on?
On 08/29/2018 06:07 PM, Paul Dejean wrote:
> Where does "hardware" begin and end? Does debian need to own the rack
> rather than renting it? The screws you use to mount the server? The
> Ethernet cables?
Funny, that's more or less what I said in my talk at Debconf18:
https://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2018/DebConf18/2018-07-30/server-freedom-why-choosing-the-cloud-op.webm
I very much agree that having more things under our own control gives
more freedom. However, what counts is using free software. GCE clearly
isn't free software.
On 08/29/2018 06:07 PM, Paul Dejean wrote:
> There's a huge cost to maintaining this too. From my understanding
> there's no mesos cluster setup right now, no kubernettes, no working
> openstack api. Creating a private Debian cloud is a lot of work. Not
> creating a private Debian cloud and just having a bunch of ad hoc
> servers is probably even more work in the long run.
I offered multiple times to the DSA team to give some help setting-up a
full OpenStack cluster for the Debian infra. Maybe this will happen some
day. I'm currently writing a software [1] to do this kind of setup fully
automatically using PXE boot and puppet. Hopefully, it will help.
On 08/29/2018 06:07 PM, Paul Dejean wrote:
> All I'm saying is that we need to define what exactly the rules and
> goals are here so we know what there is to work with.
We do have simple rules: everything should be built on Debian infra.
On 08/29/2018 06:53 PM, Paul Dejean wrote:
> Second of all I imagine that AMIs and Google cloud images and other
> offical proprietary format debian images are exempt from this rule,
> since they can only really be built from within the appropriate
> company's cloud services.
Sorry, but that's plain wrong. Take the official OpenStack image, upload
it to AWS, and there you go, you have a working official AWS image. That
image doesn't need to be built on any foreign hardware, it builds fine
on your own laptop.
On 08/29/2018 09:55 PM, Paul Dejean wrote:
> The misconception came from my lack of experience with non aws cloud
> providers. My bad.
Well, it's wrong as well for AWS, IMO.
Cheers,
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
[1] https://packages.debian.org/sid/openstack-cluster-installer