Re: Another about SID in ftp.fsn.hu/pub/CDROM-Images/debian-unofficial/sid/jigdo/
Santiago Vila wrote:
Another reason, as I've already said, is that a brown paper bag bug on
a package that you got by FTP/HTTP will probably be fixed by the same
FTP/HTTP in less than ten days. Using a CD, it will never be fixed
unless somebody downloads yet another CD image.
Same applies to Sarge.
And I think there are some bad packages which silently get into Sarge,
because nobody uses them, or just ignore to fire a bug report.
Also, a CD gives the feeling of a "finished product", which is far
from reality for a sid CD.
I don't know who are we talking about. End users, Windows newcomers,
Linux fans, Unix admins?
Those who use and understand Debian will know the difference between
Sarge and SID.
The main benefit comes from the fact that woody has very old software
and sarge is almost finished and it's very stable. The additional
benefit that distributing sid CDs has over distributing only sarge
images is marginal. The mere fact that people download sid CDs does
Maybe you are right.
not necessarily mean people benefit from them. The CDs might contain
packages with very serious bugs, and people might well throw the CD to
the bin immediately. You think you are helping by making the CDs available.
That's what rewritable media is for!
I not only think they don't help very much, I think sid CDs are
harmless for the project.
That's what I think too :-D
The packages need to be tested. Being them in unstable allow for
people to test them. As you say, the "first time wannabe-linux-hacker
And allowing it to reach people who has only good internet connectivity
at work allows more people to test them.
Allows. Not necessary means.
You can kill somebody with a knife, but also help you to survive in the
jungle and eat some meat :)
who help us with the testing. Instead, very often he's the kind of user who
complain to us about bugs which are already fixed, because by the time
he burns the CD, lots of important bugs in unstable have been fixed.
Point him to the right FAQ entry.
Oh, yes, it's very easy to say "blame the developers" when you are not
the one who has to receive the bugs.
I spend a lot of time maintaining our infrastructure and constantly seek
for sponsors, etc.
This is a little bit different like taking a source code and make a
binary package from it, but I can assure you that I have also about
50-100 emails a day regarding the stuff we provide (also, I have some
little packages, but not in Debian).
It's a hobby for me and I think to you. It's not a must which you have
to do.
If you spend money and time to distribute them, that's another reason
why I think you should consider stopping the distribution of sid CDs.
That's a little bit hard.
If everybody would think like you, there were no open source community.
Your figures speak by themselves: Only 7.7% of people who download CD
images download a sid image, so by stopping the distribution of sid CDs,
things will not be very different from now.
Just for you, I grepped how many downloads were for woody in the same
interval.
Just for the record:
>>There were nearly 5000 SID and more than 60000 Sarge image downloads
Last week there were only 400 Woody downloads. Should I draw the
consequences?
Hmm. On ftp.hu.debian.org Sarge has three times the hit rate for
Packages.gz as Woody. Woody and SID are nearly equal (SID is bigger).
May I ask for the statistics of other mirrors?
I have a question for you: Why do you think the Debian FAQ says
"please do not distribute CDs of unreleased software", and why
do you think such thing does not apply to you?
1. I didn't read that FAQ (where is it?)
2. FAQ was Frequently Asked Questions last time I checked and not a
license agreement which I must agree if I read it.
3. mirrors, please stop distributing Sarge CDs.
4. should I continue?
5. OK, just one more: a SID CD is full of with released software. I
don't think Debian has too much software without version number (from
CVS for example)...
If I take a look at the number of packages in SID (enormous number) and
the amount of work needed to correctly write and package it, I think a
SID CD has a lot of manpower in it which was needed to actually create
the software (I guess it's minimum 95, or more percents) and a minimal
amount of time to make a .deb from it.
This is of course not a matter of licensing, as the packages are all
free software, but a matter of respect for a work which is not finished.
Look. Our foundation have a very low budget (my salary minus the regular
expenses to maintain my life. Take your salary's 10%, because it's
Hungary...), so it is possible that we will run out of diskspace in one
of our servers and abandon those images. Those will be the first, I promise.
Or the server melts down, who knows. We are working with silly PCs...
So expect to see those images disappear sometimes this year (there will
be no SID images under the tree :). Seriously.
BTW, I respect your work in Debian. You have very important packages, so
please take care of them.
--
Attila Nagy e-mail: Attila.Nagy@fsn.hu
Adopt a directory on our free software phone @work: +361 371 3536
server! http://www.fsn.hu/?f=brick cell.: +3630 306 6758
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