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Re: Call for testing of RC1 images

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Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl> writes:

> On Wednesday 05 November 2008, Otavio Salvador wrote:
>> No, this is a person who has a fullday work plus University trying to
>> do his best to make the release happen.
> Why don't you try _asking_ for help if you can't do everything yourself?
> Preferably with some overview of what you intend to do yourself and 
> exactly what you'd like others to do.

Well, that is probably my own fault since I always try to no bother
people and try to do all myself. I reconice it. This is can be
improved and I'll try to do better next time.

> Instead all we (the rest of the team) get from you is total silence.  
> Every once in a while suddenly something happens. You have not sent a 
> release status update or planning or anything basically to the list in 
> months...

Sorry but I don't agree about this. My way to coordinate the release
is different of your. I do most of coordination through IRC and talk a
lot in chat with people responsable by each area.

I agree that I could have done a better job giving people more status
updates... but don't think people were lost regarting the release
planning neither what is missing to be done.

> As RM your main job is to _coordinate_ the release: make sure that 
> everything that needs to be done actually gets done.


> It would also help if you'd stop saying you will do extra stuff (like 
> follow up on the source requirement mails) and then completely fail to do 
> so without ANY explanation and without asking if others could help out.

I've said that I'll look into that and I'll do it when possible. Since
RC1 is not our last release before final (we'll have a RC2) this is
not required to be done exactly now.

>> You might just help on that instead of blame me. This could help a
>> lot.
> Well, I'm afraid I won't help much, for reasons previously given. But if 
> you'd at least asked for help, I wouldn't be bitching about things.

I'm really sad to read this (yes, I know your reasons) but I accept.

> As long as you don't give any indication that you cannot do a job properly 
> because of lack of time, you cannot blame others for expecting you to do 
> it properly.
> ASK for help processing installation reports and gathering info about 
> possible RC issues, ASK for help preparing announcements, ASK for help 
> with whatever.
> But don't leave others in the dark and don't just skip important steps 
> because you don't have the time to do them.

I've asked people to help with release announcement, and other things
here in mailing list but few people did it. I agree I could be more
clear about things but I always try to not bother too much about the

> IMO it's better to tell people you cannot do a job you've accepted and 
> taken responsibility for, then to do the job half-arsed.
> If nobody else steps up to help you or take over, then you still have the 
> option to do things half-arsed, but at least then you'll be able to tell 
> people who complain to go to hell.

Well this is indeed a good point and I'll do best next times.

Basically my TODO list, that I'm lacking time to do... and I
appreciate help with:

 - check missing items in release announcement
 - check outdated items in errata and propose a patch in mailing list
   for it
 - check source requirement mails items (source packages that are need
   to be in sync in lenny and sid due GPL and like)
 - check missing acks on sources for lenny (kernel, packages building
   udebs, ...)
 - prepare a diff for website about RC1 release

I've probably missed few ones but if I remember I'll post it here.

Release the Debian Installer is a huge job and when I've joined as
Release Manager the idea was to do that as a team. That team was I,
Jeremy and Joey. After that each one has stoping to work as RM (each
one has their reasons, no problem on that) and it ended in my hands. I
try to offer all my free time to d-i and I'm constantly sad due my
inability to give more time for it.

I love Debian and I feel d-i is a really core part of the release
.. if someone wants to join this effort _please_ do it. I know I'm far
from perfect but I'm sure I always do my best ...

Do someone wants to join and really form a team to release Debian
Installer? Help is needed!



- -- 
        O T A V I O    S A L V A D O R
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