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Bug#384323: Bug#384248: installation-report: Almost successful Etch installation with di-beta3

Quoting Stanislav Maslovski (stanislav.maslovski@gmail.com):
> Hello,
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2006 at 11:55:44PM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> [ ... ]
> > I'm yelling right now because I'm quite angry. We put a lot of efforts
> > to allow you guys having an installer translated in all your languages
> > and such negligence is really desperating.
> This sounds like you think you own Debian. "In all your languages" - do you
> mean slavonic languages here? Before making such rasist statements, please

I mean ALL languages, dude.

No bloody racist intent (dunno where you got this idea) but as I'm,
quite proudly, think I have some responsibility for the number of
languages supported by D-I being now over 60, this indeed sounds a bit
funny, I'm afraid. Ask in debian-i18n if you have some doubts...or
read this list's archives.

> think twice. Also, from your words it is seen that you percept Russian,
> Ukranian and Belorussian users as very distint in their nature. Which is
> again your own problem, I will not comment on this.

Absolutely not. If you again carefully read my answer, it explains
that Ukrainian is very well tested because Eugenyi really cares about
the work he does and not only translates but also tests the installer
in his language.

Belarusian is untested

Russian is poorly tested

Macedonian is loosely tested

Bulgarian is loosely tested

Kazakh is untested

Ukrainian is well tested

*that* is the situation for cyrillic languages

> I think, this bug was not noticed earlier simply because the most of
> experienced users do not upgrade with an installer, they do it with
> apt-get distupgrade or something similar. However, I do agree that this
> was the task of the i10n team to test the current situation with the
> installer (I am not from the team by the way).

that's my point...and more precisely it is my point to explain that
testing the installer is among the duties of all l10n teams, not only
those for cyrillic languages. "ordinary" users can certainly help as
well (that's why I CC'ed the debian-russian team) as testing the
installer is indeed really easy to do.

> Because the bug _is_ noticed now it is better to think of how to solve it
> instead of yelling. Eugeniy has actually proposed some ways how to do it.
> I hope you understand that this problem is common for all languages that
> use console-cyrillic so that disabling just Russian in the installer will
> not help.

Untrue. That problem happens only for languages which use
console-cyrillic. Ukrainian does not (probably because Eugenyi did not
 feel that need, or for whatever else reason).

And, sorry, but I/we (the D-I team) can't fix all languages if I/we don't
get support for them. Cyrillic languages users ar very happy that
Eugenyi actually cares about them for over 2 years now but I would
expect more implications by other users as well.

You may find my mail a bit rude, but that's the situation with the
installer l10n: it is well localized but very often poorly tested. For
instance, I think that the recent beta3 has only been tested in less
than 10 languages before it has been released. The beta2 was more
tested....mostly because I took time to run about 40 different
installs in languages I actually can't read and understand (which
means I cannot really find all bugs).

This is a warning to all language teams and international users: we
*will not ship* localization for the installer if they have not been
tested before.

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