Re: Third option
On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 10:41:32AM +0200, Geert Stappers wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 09:52:41AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 09:26:04AM +0200, Geert Stappers wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 08:39:19AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > [ in my words: energy drain ]
> > >
> > > > So, there is only two ways this can end, i leave any d-i (and maybe debian
> > > > work at all) forever, and fork what i need for my professional life, or Frans
> > > > comes to his sense, and forgets about his petty vengeancve against me.
> > >
> > > Or you, Sven Luther, change your point of view.
> >
> > Geert, please tell me what i should do ? I have tried to be nice on Frans, as
> > showed in the log, and he rejected that, i have to remember i was punished by
> > Frans each time i plan to do any kind of d-i work, i cannot make the most
> > minimal comment either on irc or on the list, without frans over-reacting.
>
> What you should do? Let it go! At least for a few days.
Like i did last time, for how many times now ? This is not working, because
everyone is giving the right to Frans, and thus he doesn't realise that there
is something terribly wrong in how he handles this situation.
> (that allows me also to write a better advice then this one)
:)
> > I am only told i need to be sumissive for a 'long' time, and be content with
> > this punishment being handed to me and admit i deserve it.
> >
> > What do you want me to change my point of view to ?
> >
> > There is *NO* reason for my commit access not to be restored except the social
> > punishment (or whatever you want to call it), and i think that all of you who
> > ask me to change my point of view should maybe also think about what is really
> > happening, and maybe tell Frans that is behavior on this is not correct
> > anymore.
>
> The whole thing about "change the point of view" is an invitation
> to see things different.
Well, if you find a point of view which puts this issue in a nice way, i am
certainly interested. It has been over a month now, and i still fail to see
this whole thing as anything else as a punishement which will last as long as
Frans will like, and since Frans is prompt to anger on the most minor issue,
this is likely to be forever.
> Imagine a banana, from some angles it is straight,
> from other angles it is bend. So when people are argueing about the
> shape of the banana and they change their p.o.v. they know why
> the other is stating his "opinion". After that can a party go back
> to his original p.o.v. and continue his argument about the shape of the
> banana, but in most cases is the dispute over.
Yeah, except in this case, everyone is seing it from Frans pov, and telling me
to change my pov. And the few that see some fault in Frans action, either
don't dare to mention it, simply don't care, or failed to get any kind of
success in speaking to him.
> What I'm trying to say is that all parties are "rigth" from their p.o.v.
No. People are motivated by all kind of emotions, and there are noble emotions
and there are bad emotions, and in this case, the problem is that Frans is
acting out of anger against me, which is not a noble emotion, and this colors
all his point of view in a wrong way, and he has his own interest in mind more
than the interest of debian, and me first, but you to a different degree, all
suffer from this. There is only one way this can be solved to a way
satisfactory to everyone, but the current situation is not a solution.
The only way to not fall into this, is to try to not let the emotions enter
the decision, and if they do, which may happen, repare that error.
So, if frans was able to take decisions, not out of anger or another such bad
sentiment, but with technical reasoning, and the best of debian in mind, then
everyone would be happy coding since weeks or months now, but this not being
the case. ...
Hurt,
Sven Luther
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