Re: Let's stop using CVS for debian.org website
Hey,
* Boyuan Yang <073plan@gmail.com> [2016-11-23 17:17:59 CET]:
> 在 2016年11月24日星期四 SGT 上午12:44:52，Osamu Aoki 写道：
> > Yah... we all know this. But CVS has a technical advantage. -- Ease of
> > partial checkout and commit from there.
> >
> > Normally, no translator needs full archive. He only needs his language
> > PO files and English to translate and test build them.
> >
> > Yes, with careful submodule design, this may become manageable with Git.
> > So if you push this agenda, please pay attention to people with the
> > lower bandwidth access at the archive.
>
> Yeah, I am aware of the problem of full checkout of Git. That said, I am a bit
> suprised about pretty many people (>=3) emphasizing about low bandwidth
> problem.
Maybe you should check your privilege then. :)
> I have somehow got used to `git clone' a big git repository and go around and
> have a cup of tea during the clone process.
You are probably not having to fight with harddisk space and probably
also have a good network connection. That's not the case for people
around the world, and I would be very disappointed if we cut people off
from contributing from less developed countries.
From a personal experience, for a quick translation fix that I would
like to contribute I wouldn't want to clone a 400+mb repository. I have
a hard time already contributing to battle for wesnoth because of that,
I don't have the resources to have a clone of the repository lying
around on my harddisk. For most of the time as translator for the
Debian website I just had a checkout of english and german because it
was too much of a burden for me to have all the other languages checked
out, too.
... and I live in Europe. Now imagine countries that have less well
connected networks. Did you watch "Before the Flood"? Do you realize
the power issue that India has? It would be wise to not be so surprised
by issues like that if you manage to look out the window ...
> Actually this won't be a problem once the full git clone is done.
That's totally ignoring the fact how to get there and reducing it to
not-an-issue -- which it is.
> That means if any newcomer wants to join the website translation, all
> he/she needs to do is find a place to clone full history and start
> working happily after that.
But that's a new requirement and burden - and there are translators,
currently around, that didn't take that burden. I switched to a full
checkout only around the time when I became part of the webmaster team -
and can totally relate to not wanting to carry it around.
> Finally git has a shallow clone feature, which can greatly reduce the
> initial network traffic needs. I just tried again, and retrieving the
> whole bare git repository for webwml would download 212.35 MiB. The
> 1-depth shallow git clone would download 70.79 MiB. Sounds acceptable.
Well, it might. But to you the 212.35 MiB also sound acceptable. A
third of the amount is still quite a fair bit, I consider the "greatly
reduce" an exaggeration, but that might be different points of view
here. Do shallow clones allow commits these days?
> P.S. If we do want partial checkout, why not switch to SVN? :p
Because SVN is no real improvement to CVS, requires more than double
the diskspace of CVS for no real gain, appart from "let's get rid of
CVS" which is no reason from a technical point of view and would just
cater the emotional. But I see that we are at a point where technical
reasons aren't relevant anymore because CVS is actually really ancient
and I understand that. SVN though is just as bad and useless.
So long,
Rhonda
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