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Re: english/devel/website/working: missing closing parenthesis in cdvendors example

[ Sorry in advance for the long answer for such a tiny remark ]

Le 01/09/2011 10:33, Luca Capello a écrit :

> While reading through the website documentation, I found that we are
> missing a closing parenthesis at the end of the last paragraph of
>   Separation of text from data
>   "What are these foo.def and foo.data files?"

Well, I intend to disagree on this point, maybe should we bring this
issue in the debian-l10n-english mailing list for more comment?

For other reader, the text spotted by Luca is:

	(An updated translation for free! :-)

In my point of view, the text “An updated translation for free!” is
between parenthesis and someone added some extra and unneeded
characters, “ :-”, to show a “friendly face” at the end of the sentence,
resulting is a final “:-)”.

Adding an extra closing parenthesis would make it clear that the “:-)”
is an actual word, and on this point I disagree. Maybe should we simply
remove it (I don't understand what is the extra information that this
friendly face add): if the sentence is funny, no need to add extra
characters, pretending that the reader is dummy, to tell him: “now,
you've got the right to smile”, and if the sentence is not funny, it
should be change to match the intend to be funny, or simply be kept as
it is without the friendly face, no need to pretend we are some bunch of
friendly people that are always laughing when we are coding or
translating (well, I recently met other Debian people, and we all know
that's true, but no need to state it publicly).

> Before going on with the subject at matter here, there are three
> independent problems:
> 1) some translations contains extra empty lines, which is a cosmetic
>    issue, but still causes automatic tool to be adjusted for nothing
>    (the value of the -B option for grep)

There are many contributors, and indeed many different “styles”. For
example, I like to separate each sentence by an extra empty lines, it
makes easier to read the diff if a sentence is later changed…

> 2) the Swedish translation uses a different style, i.e. it places the
>    closing </p> on a newline, again bad for automatic tool (you can not
>    grep for "! :-)</p>", which means I do not see any other way I could
>    use smart_change.pl...)

So the Swedish translator is the only one who actually read the whole
doc and adopt the rules [0], shame on the others!

	0 : http://www.debian.org/devel/website/htmlediting#general

> 3) the Spanish translation does not follow the others, given it misses
>    the opening parenthesis.  This is the biggest problem, because adding
>    a closing parenthesis without the opening one generates a new error.
>    Should that be fixed in the same run?  I would say no.

Looking at all the friendly faces on this page, you can also remark that
other translators takes some liberty on that matter :

$ grep -c :-\) */devel/website/working.wml

Not sure if you can state that Danish translation is funnier or that
French is sadder… More seriously, Kåre, you may wish to verify that
there is no extra sentence or paragraph in the Danish translation, I on
the other hand confirm that the missing friendly face in the French
translation is fine.

> Going back to the point in question, I would add an extra space after
> the emoticon, though.

If we really want to edit this page for this “issue”, I would prefer to
simply remove them.

> Nevertheless, despite the fact that I have CVS
> commit rights, here the patch:

Ditto, patch attached. Thanks for your close look, I took extra care of
the various translations too.

> BTW, I found that using *Vendors.CD* as an example for the separation of
>      text from data is a bit unfortunate, given that there is no .data
>      file at all, and the subtitle says "What are these foo.def and
>      foo.data files?"...

It states that name doesn't matter, but if it makes it more difficult to
understand because of that, maybe someone could volunteer to rephrase
those using, e.g., english/events/ and the talks.wml, talks.data and
talks.defs files…



Index: danish/devel/website/working.wml
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/danish/devel/website/working.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.21
diff -u -r1.21 working.wml
--- danish/devel/website/working.wml	27 Feb 2011 14:43:05 -0000	1.21
+++ danish/devel/website/working.wml	1 Sep 2011 15:54:27 -0000
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
 #use wml::debian::template title="Hvordan man arbejder på Debians websider" BARETITLE=true
 #use wml::debian::toc
-#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.37"
+#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.38"
@@ -172,7 +172,7 @@
 <p>Hvis du opdager et link som ikke virker (404, 403, eller en side som ikke
 viser det, som linket siger), så ret linket og fortæl om det på debian-www så
 oversætterne bliver gjort opmærksomme på. Eller endnu bedre, ret linket i alle
-de andre oversættelser og opdater translation-check-linjen om muligt. :-)</p>
+de andre oversættelser og opdater translation-check-linjen om muligt.</p>
 <toc-add-entry name="special">Adskillelse af tekst fra data</toc-add-entry>
@@ -204,11 +204,11 @@
 <code>getvendors.pl</code>) og lader dernæst WML og makefilerne klare resten.
 Alle oversættelser bliver genopbygget med anvendelse af den allerede oversatte
 tekst, men med de nye forhandleroplysninger.  (En ajourført oversættelse, kvit
-og frit! :-)</p>
+og frit!)</p>
 <p>Nye forhandlere tilføjes af en af webmasterne ved at ændre i vendors.CD.
 Næste gang websiderne opdateres vil alle oversættelserne automatisk blive 
-genopbygget. (En ajourført opdatering helt gratis! :-)</p>
+genopbygget. (En ajourført opdatering helt gratis!)</p>
 <toc-add-entry name="newpage">Tilføjelse af en ny side</toc-add-entry>
Index: english/devel/website/working.wml
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/devel/website/working.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.37
diff -u -r1.37 working.wml
--- english/devel/website/working.wml	27 Feb 2011 14:43:13 -0000	1.37
+++ english/devel/website/working.wml	1 Sep 2011 15:54:42 -0000
@@ -170,7 +170,7 @@
 <p>If you find a broken link (404, 403, or a page that's not what the link
 says it is), please fix it and tell debian-www about it so translators are
 aware. Even better, fix the link in all the other translations, and update
-translation-check headers if possible. :-)</p>
+translation-check headers if possible.</p>
 <toc-add-entry name="special">Separation of text from data</toc-add-entry>
@@ -202,7 +202,7 @@
 format as <code>vendors.CD</code> (using <code>getvendors.pl</code>),
 and then let WML and the makefiles do their magic. All the translations
 get rebuilt using the existing translated text but with the new vendor
-data. (An updated translation for free! :-)</p>
+data. (An updated translation for free!)</p>
 <toc-add-entry name="newpage">Adding a new page</toc-add-entry>
Index: french/devel/website/working.wml
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/french/devel/website/working.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.30
diff -u -r1.30 working.wml
--- french/devel/website/working.wml	27 Feb 2011 14:43:28 -0000	1.30
+++ french/devel/website/working.wml	1 Sep 2011 15:54:50 -0000
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
 #use wml::debian::template title="Travailler sur les pages du site Debian" BARETITLE=true
 #use wml::debian::toc
-#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.37" maintainer="Frédéric Bothamy"
+#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.38" maintainer="Frédéric Bothamy"
@@ -228,7 +228,7 @@
 (avec le programme <code>getvendors.pl</code>), et ensuite laisse WML
 et les Makefiles faire leur travail. Toutes les traductions seront
 reconstruites à partir du texte actuellement traduit, mais avec les
-données pour le nouveau vendeur (une mise à jour gratuite&nbsp;! :-)</p>
+données pour le nouveau vendeur (une mise à jour gratuite&nbsp;!)</p>
 <toc-add-entry name="newpage">Ajouter de nouvelles pages</toc-add-entry>
Index: german/devel/website/working.wml
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/german/devel/website/working.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.30
diff -u -r1.30 working.wml
--- german/devel/website/working.wml	27 Feb 2011 14:43:38 -0000	1.30
+++ german/devel/website/working.wml	1 Sep 2011 15:55:01 -0000
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
 #use wml::debian::template title="Wie man an den Debian Webseiten arbeitet" BARETITLE=true
 #use wml::debian::toc
-#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.37"
+#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.38"
 # $Id: working.wml,v 1.30 2011-02-27 14:43:38 taffit-guest Exp $
@@ -203,7 +203,7 @@
 zeigt, was der Link sagt) finden, bitte beheben Sie ihn und teilen Sie
 debian-www mit, damit die Ã?bersetzer darauf aufmerksam werden. Oder besser
 noch, reparieren Sie den Link auch in allen anderen Ã?bersetzungen, und
-aktualisieren Sie die translation-check Kopfzeilen, falls möglich. :-)</p>
+aktualisieren Sie die translation-check Kopfzeilen, falls möglich.</p>
 <toc-add-entry name="special">Trennung des Texts von den Daten</toc-add-entry>
@@ -241,7 +241,7 @@
 <code>getvendors.pl</code> verwendet), und lassen dann WML und die Makefiles
 ihre Magie spielen. Alle Ã?bersetzungen werden unter Verwendung des vorhandenen
 übersetzten Texts neu übersetzt, aber mit den neuen Distributoren-Daten. (Eine
-aktualisierte Ã?bersetzung gratis! :-))</p>
+aktualisierte Ã?bersetzung gratis!)</p>
 <toc-add-entry name="newpage">Eine neue Seite hinzufügen</toc-add-entry>
Index: italian/devel/website/working.wml
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/italian/devel/website/working.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.24
diff -u -r1.24 working.wml
--- italian/devel/website/working.wml	7 Aug 2011 14:22:16 -0000	1.24
+++ italian/devel/website/working.wml	1 Sep 2011 15:55:14 -0000
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
 #use wml::debian::template title="Come lavorare sulle pagine web Debian" BARETITLE=true
 #use wml::debian::toc
-#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.37" maintainer="Johan Haggi"
+#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.38" maintainer="Johan Haggi"
@@ -171,7 +171,7 @@
 <p>Se si trova un link che non funziona (404, 403 o una pagina che non è quella che
 dovrebbe esserci), si sistemi il problema e si mandi un messaggio a debian-www in modo
 che i traduttori possano fare lo stesso aggiornamento. Meglio ancora: si aggiornino
-tutte le traduzioni e l'intestazione translation-check. :-)</p>
+tutte le traduzioni e l'intestazione translation-check.</p>
 <toc-add-entry name="special">Separazione dei testi dai dati</toc-add-entry>
@@ -203,7 +203,7 @@
 come <code>vendors.CD</code> (usando <code>getvendors.pl</code>),
 ed infine WML e i makefile faranno la loro magia: tutte le traduzioni
 saranno ricostruite usando il testo tradotto già esistente ma con l'aggiunta dei dati
-del nuovo venditore. (Una traduzione aggiornata in cambio di niente! :-)</p>
+del nuovo venditore. (Una traduzione aggiornata in cambio di niente!)</p>
 <toc-add-entry name="newpage">Aggiungere nuove pagine</toc-add-entry>
Index: japanese/devel/website/working.wml
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/japanese/devel/website/working.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.7
diff -u -r1.7 working.wml
--- japanese/devel/website/working.wml	27 Feb 2011 14:43:53 -0000	1.7
+++ japanese/devel/website/working.wml	1 Sep 2011 15:55:28 -0000
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
 #use wml::debian::template title="Debian ã?¦ã?§ã??ã??ã?¼ã?¸ã?®ä½?業ã??ã??ã??ã?«ã?¯" BARETITLE=true
 #use wml::debian::toc
-#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.37"
+#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.38"
@@ -161,7 +161,7 @@
 <p>ã?ªã?³ã?¯å??ã?? (404ã??403ã??ã?ªã?³ã?¯ã?¨ã?¯é??ã??ã??ã?¼ã?¸ã??表示ã??ã??ã??) ã??ç?ºè¦?ã??ã??ã??ã??
 修正ã??ã??ä¸?ã?§ debian-www ã?«ç?¥ã??ã??ã?¦ã??ã? ã??ã??ã??ã??ã??ã??ã??ã?°ã??翻訳è??ã??æ°?ã?¥ã??ã?¾ã??ã??
-å?¯è?½ã?ªã?? translation-check ã??ã??ã??ã??æ?´æ?°ã??ã?¦ã??ã? ã??ã?? :-)ã??</p>
+å?¯è?½ã?ªã?? translation-check ã??ã??ã??ã??æ?´æ?°ã??ã?¦ã??ã? ã??ã??ã??</p>
 <toc-add-entry name="special">ã??ã?¼ã?¿ã?¨ã??ã?­ã?¹ã??ã?®å??é?¢</toc-add-entry>
@@ -194,7 +194,7 @@
 WML ã?¨ Makefile ã??使ã?£ã?¦é­?æ³?ã??ã??ã??ã?¾ã??ã??
-(ç?¡æ??ã?§ç¿»è¨³ç??ã??ã?¢ã??ã??ã??ã?¼ã??! :-)</p>
 <toc-add-entry name="newpage">æ?°ã??ã??ã??ã?¼ã?¸ã??追å? ã??ã??</toc-add-entry>
Index: spanish/devel/website/working.wml
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/spanish/devel/website/working.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.24
diff -u -r1.24 working.wml
--- spanish/devel/website/working.wml	13 Aug 2011 14:46:20 -0000	1.24
+++ spanish/devel/website/working.wml	1 Sep 2011 15:55:43 -0000
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
 #use wml::debian::template title="Cómo trabajar con las páginas web de Debian" BARETITLE=true
 #use wml::debian::toc
-#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.37"
+#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.38"
@@ -182,7 +182,7 @@
 enlace dice), por favor, corríjalo e indíquelo en debian-www de manera que
 los traductores se enteren. Incluso mejor aún, corrija el enlace en todas
 las traducciones, y actualice las cabeceras translation-check si es
-posible. :-)</p>
 <toc-add-entry name="special">Separación de texto y datos</toc-add-entry>
@@ -216,7 +216,7 @@
 <code>getvendors.pl</code>), y deja que WML y los ficheros "makefile"
 hagna su magia. Todas las traducciones son reconstruidas usando el 
 texto ya traducido, pero con los datos del nuevo vendedor. ¡Una
-traducción actualizada gratis! :-)</p>
+traducción actualizada gratis!</p>
 <toc-add-entry name="newpage">Añadir nuevas páginas</toc-add-entry>
Index: swedish/devel/website/working.wml
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/swedish/devel/website/working.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.36
diff -u -r1.36 working.wml
--- swedish/devel/website/working.wml	16 Mar 2011 20:11:09 -0000	1.36
+++ swedish/devel/website/working.wml	1 Sep 2011 15:55:56 -0000
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
 #use wml::debian::template title="Hur man arbetar på Debians webbsidor" BARETITLE=true
 #use wml::debian::toc
-#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.37"
+#use wml::debian::translation-check translation="1.38"
@@ -221,7 +221,7 @@
 länken säger att det skall vara), rätta den och berätta för debian-www så
 att översättarna är medvetna om det.
 Eller ännu bättre, rätta länken i alla andra översättningar, och uppdatera
-translation-check-huvudet om möjligt. :-)
+translation-check-huvudet om möjligt.
 <h3><q>Vad gör foo.def- och foo.data-filerna?</q></h3>
@@ -266,7 +266,7 @@
 <code>getvendors.pl</code>), och låter WML och makefilerna utföra sin magi.
 Alla översättningarna byggs om med existerande översatt text men med ny
-(En uppdaterad översättning utan extra kostnad! :-)
+(En uppdaterad översättning utan extra kostnad!)
 <toc-add-entry name="newpage">Lägga till nya sidor</toc-add-entry>

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