Re: events/materials/posters
[dropping CC: to Anand since he's not involved]
On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 05:21:36PM +0200, Javier Fdz-Sanguino Pen~a wrote:
> > > c) are handled by those same people and might easily change over
> > > time leaving the main site with dangled links.
> >
> > It is also possible that I accidentally move or remove those web pages, how
> > do we account for that? :) Anything can happen, this is not relevant.
>
> That'w what CVS is for isnt' it? IMHO this is relevant. We can
> recover from changes done on the CVS or on files done on master (or any
> server that is backup'd) but we cannot (easily) recover from changes made
> beyond our control... (examples below)
Perhaps. But you also added makefiles that installed it all to debian.org/.
(Let's ignore the weird issue of cvs(1) crashing for some people...)
> > > then why isn't it officially acknowledged? (and I'm talking about stuff in
> > > w.d.o./devel here)
> >
> > It's a fraction less official when it's on people.debian.org instead of
> > www.debian.org. The difference is in the fact it we don't burden twenty
> > mirrors with the additional megabytes, plus eventual updates.
>
> So. The question still stands, are we going to limit the things we
> include to our website due to size restrictions? As far as I know (and I
> will probably be wrong) there has been no problem due to it being added (no
> broken mirrors).
Yes, I am going to actively oppose putting oodles of stuff in there. The
fact nobody has complained doesn't imply that this has got to be the correct
course of action.
Just a few days ago, ftp.tr.debian.org broke due to lack of space. A few
weeks ago, the same happened to ftp.it.debian.org. There are even official
mirrors that don't mirror all released architectures, ftp.es was one such
last time I checked. And it's only going to get worse.
By the looks of it, it's going worse for the web site size, too. I know it's
not as big as the FTP site but that's what the mirror admins expect, too,
and I assume they didn't allocate partitions with gigabytes of free space
for their web mirrors. I am going to do whatever I can to stop the eventual
escalation on the web site -- this means carefully analyzing where and how
the space is spent and rationalizing it whenever possible.
I have so far restrained myself from frenetical rm -rf raids through the
tree, but it's becoming difficult to resist the urge ;)) Just kidding.
> We also do have a page (w.d.o/mirror/size) which states how big should
> mirrors be in order to accomodate properly.
Yes, but it shouldn't be updated post res, that's not nice to the existing
mirrors.
> > > I did move these information available (but almost lost unless you
> > > dug out the list archives) from people.debian.org to www.debian.org please
> > > don't hide it *again*
> >
> > It was only "hidden" because no www.d.o page linked to it. You overfixed
> > that problem, so to speak :)
>
> Well, IMHO I fixed it permanently so neither Anand nor the web team
> has to do any more management of the information available there.
Yeah, well, it sets a bad precedent WRT the space.
> > Note also that there's a precedent for my point -- one of cdimage.debian.org
> > web pages links to CD art graphics to external sites. Worked fine for me!
>
> That was a decision taken by the www team? I don't recall we
> discussing that issue here. If that is the case, that precedent is just as
> valid (only previous in time) that the one I just set when I included that
> information in w.d.o.
It was Anne Bezemer's decision, AFAICT... and it's true that yours is also a
precedent, but the tradition is worth something, isn't it? :)
> In any case, I feel it's better to compile this information than to
> make it point "outside". This is called "centralization"
It's centralized enough if we provide links to it from www.d.o, IMHO.
> and avoids loss of information since many things can happen to remote
> services which are not dependent on us (people administering them change
> and remove provided content, information is lost w/o backups, a user no
> longer has an account on the server, etc.. Much effort has to be taken
> (when the need arises) if the information is lost that is avoided if we
> mirror valuable information ourselves (at least we keep a copy)
For this particular case, we only have to rely on Anand not to move the
stuff from his public_html directory. He says he hasn't moved it in years,
so it looks like a sure thing.
> Could we settle this matter in any way? How should we proceed in
> order to have an *official* and documented statement (maybe in
> w.d.o/devel/website) on what information can be published, which can't and
> on which terms.
The current policy is "discuss on debian-www".
> Whatever is the official decision on this matter I will uphold to
> it, as I have done for many others. But please note that I, personally,
> would like to be able to mirror the website and have *all* the information
> that Debian offers to the public and not have to worry about things
> pointing to auric.debian.org, master.debian.org, people.debian.org or
> whatever. Specially when we are talking about things stabilized (sp?) and
> not yet under development.
This is a nice goal, but it's hardly possible AFAICT.
> PD: For the same reason I would like cdimage.debian.org to be available from
> *within* the CVS infraestructure of w.d.o like vote.debian.org and others
> are... not that I think that they are not doing a good job regarding this
> site...
I agree, but Anne doesn't seem to.
--
2. That which causes joy or happiness.
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