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Re: No goals, selective memory, be nice, red nose day

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:13:26 +0100
MJ Ray <mjr@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> On 2004-08-19 09:58:21 +0100 Ricardo Mones <mones@aic.uniovi.es> wrote:
> >   What conclusions did you form?
> I've taken this off-list, because I think the above has already been 
> flamed against on-list.

  Ok, removed.
> >   I think debian-women is an entry door, not any separated space, 
> > like any
> > other debian-somegroup-specific list. An Spanish user will be 
> > probably more
> > attracted  to debian-user-spanish or debian-devel-spanish than other 
> > generic
> > lists, but that doesn't mean she is going stay there forever. I see 
> > no fences
> > or walls here, but, as always, YMMV.
> Spanish is an ability, not a characteristic. If a random person wants 
> to participate in -spanish lists, they probably have all the material 
> they need to do so, given time. Now, if debian-user-spanish was solely 
> for Spanish nationals, this might be comparable.

  For some people Spanish is not an ability, it's the only language they
know, then their characteristic language. Anyway agree that one can learn
Spanish but learning to be a woman is a bit difficult, but the point is not
learning how to *be*, the point is learning to put yourself under the skin of
the other whatever your gender is, and I think that can be learned, as
Spanish or any other ability. 

> If some random person posts a help request about ssh to debian-women, 
> will they get told to go elsewhere if they are a man? 

  I don't think so, in fact there is a thread about ssh and nobody has told
any other to go elsewhere.

> If they are a woman? 

  The same applies.

> Why is it good for either to post here than some -user list?

  Why is bad? 
  For example why is bad I post on debian-user-spanish instead of
debian-user or viceversa? Given the same question I can post it in Spanish on
the first or in English on the second, why is any option better than the
  Will you call me an extremist Spanish nationalist if I post on
debian-user-spanish avoiding all non-Spanish speaking users to benefit from
the answers?
  People post where they feel better posting or think is more appropriate,
why do you want to restrict that? We are all humans, not email classifying

> >   BTW, my mental logic crashes when you say "I believe in equal 
> > opportunities
> > in debian for all" and "I will try to avoid many of the posters to 
> > this list 
> > on some things" on the same paragraph. So sex is an irrelevant 
> > characteristic
> > for discriminating people you're willing to work with but being 
> > subscribed to
> > debian-woman is not so irrelevant... interesting. FYI, I'm subscribed 
> > :-)
> Sex is a characteristic. Support for sexism is a (bad) ability that 
> one chooses. You still have the same opportunity: combat sexism and 
> I'll not avoid you.

  I don't think having debian-women means being sexist, moreover its
existence recognizes women are, for some reasons, kept apart from Debian and
that some people within the project feels that this is not congruent with
their idea of an Universal Operating System. 

  Ricardo Mones Lastra - mones@aic.uniovi.es
  Centro de Inteligencia Artificial, Universidad de Oviedo en Gijon
  33271 Asturias, SPAIN. - http://www.aic.uniovi.es/mones

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