Re: Q to all candidates: NEW queue
Hi Lucas
On 2020/03/26 09:33, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> For as long as I can remember, there has been complaints about the
> delays caused by NEW processing (and
> https://ftp-master.debian.org/stat.html shows that we constantly have
> 250-300 packages waiting to be processed).
There was even a brief period in 2017 where it was really low for a
while, but I think this was mainly due to hero work from one individual.
Watching some old DebConf videos recently, and it was interesting seeing
a BoF where Debian was approaching 15000 packages and the idea was to
figure out how to scale up and be able to support that. Since then that
number has casually exploded and I think it's remarkable that everything
has passed through NEW at some point.
> What is your diagnostic of this issue?
I think that's the most difficult question I've seen during my two DPL
campaigns... thanks!
I don't have all the details and have just recently been re-accepted as
ftp-trainee, but I believe it's a case of it being easier to continue
doing a lot of grunt work rather than to do a collective step back and
redesigning the machinery.
> What solutions do you envision about this issue? Is that just something
> that we have to live with?
I'll be honest in that I haven't envisioned anything for this yet, I'd
like to take some time to get into it and understand all the problems
properly first.
I do not think it's something we have to live with, no. I think with a
combination of process improvements as well as tooling improvements,
this could be made a lot better.
For example, copyright review seems to be a big chunk of the work.
There's probably no reason why a larger group of DD's can't help with
this too (currently the ftp-helpers/trainees helps with this, but it
depends on them being part of the team and using the team's tooling).
Perhaps mentors.debian.net could be augmented for better copyright
reviewing, or a similar tool could be set up for DD's who want their
copyright reviewed or maybe even just get a second pair of eyes over the
package before it gets submitted to NEW, then that might already help.
>From a mostly outsider view, it seems that packages that are problematic
take up a significantly more amount of ftpmaster time than packages
which have no problems. If we can add some kind of filters, whether it's
based on code or on social solutions, then it may be possible to reduce
ftpmaster load without even making any immediate changes to the ftp team.
That said, I like the efforts currently underway with the new
ftptrainees, there is now a dedicated person taking care of them (well,
us :)) and I think those efforts will pay off.
I also think that it's worth while for the ftpmasters to get together
somewhere nice at least once a year. Nice as in, not DebCamp but
somewhere where they can have relaxed conversation and be creative
without being disturbed.
> Specifically, Jonathan writes that he would like to "Reduce bottlenecks
> that affect our contributors.". That sounds like a good example.
Yep, perfect example :)
> Personnally, I wonder if we are being overly cautious about NEW. I
> wonder if we could move to checking a posteriori (accept the package in
> unstable; maybe don't let it migrate to testing until it is reviewed).
Not fond of that idea, because that means the packages already get
mirrored (so basically distributed) already. It would be nice to be able
to access NEW packages via an apt repository, or even links from the NEW
page[1] to the package's git repository, so I think there might be
tooling that can help but I don't want to get into specific ideas or
solutions without having delved deeper into this. I do have confidence
that the current measures with the new ftptrainees will start paying off
over the next few months. Merely the fact that there's less stress on
the team might help it to re-assess a few old processes and tooling and
allow it to evolve again.
Overall, I think it's good for a DPL to check in on the team and offer
assistance, I don't think a DPL should be too pushy on these issues, the
strategy should be removing pressure instead of adding more imho. If the
team has more time to address their problems internally then the day to
day problems will eventually get better too.
-Jonathan
[1] https://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
--
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) <jcc>
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ https://wiki.debian.org/highvoltage
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ https://debian.org | https://jonathancarter.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ Be Bold. Be brave. Debian has got your back.
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