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Re: debian-women obscurity, was: Clarification about krooger's platform

* MJ Ray <mjr@dsl.pipex.com> [2005:03:10 10:33 +0000]: 
> Matthew Palmer <mpalmer@debian.org> wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 02:36:49AM +0000, MJ Ray wrote:
> > > If it's fair to call one-sided example genders on www.debian as
> > > a bug, let's call it a bug where it happens across all debian.
> > That's a fair call.  So are you going to follow d-women's example, get
> > involved in the project you feel is a problem, and help to provide
> > corrective action? [...]
> Some of my suggestions have been accepted previously. Damned
> if I can find the right bug tracker entries for them, though.

Yeah, a bug tracker might be nice, but it seems a bit overboard for what we
do. The community is small enough that we can fairly easily track stuff
already. And yes, you did suggest some helpful things before. :)

> This is a lower priority than some other tasks (package review
> and upload, for example) and I feel progress is impeded by some
> irrational or uncommunicative people. For example, "Searching
> for Safety Online" (which recommends "pro-active interventions")
> has been used to justify the debate-killing silence policy in
> the List FAQ, which seems just plain broken.

IIRC, you recommended having someone designated as a sort of "troll
detector" or similar who would decide that $PERSON wasn't worth responding
too and announce it to the list. Luckily we haven't had to resort to any
similar measures since last year. 

I don't consider ignoring people who seem to be out to shut down what we're
working on "broken" though. You may be enlightened by what you call
"debates", but many people (including myself) consider them draining,
pointless arguments, which may explain some of our silence in this thread
as well. 

> So, I have not contributed for some time.  There are more
> welcoming and encouraging parts of the project which also need
> help. I call on the debian-women leaders to make it welcoming
> and rebalance tolerance, but here I'm really interested in what
> the DPL candidates would do about topics this raises, if anything.

Well, that is fine, but there are also some things you are unaware of as a
result of your lack of time / interest.

One of these things is that the project has evolved since last year -- in
August it was only two months old and didn't take kindly to basically
having two attacks on it within a short period of time. It took a bit of
effort to remotivate ourselves to get it working. Now it's a fairly vibrant
and positive community and, to address some of your more specific concerns,
there are a fair amount of men also working on the project. They have full
access and total freedom to do as they please to the website and so forth
and I do not think that, due to their contributions, any of us would be
opposed to having them on the website. However, the topic has not come up
and I think it's silly to forcefully encourage them to list themselves --
we don't even do that with the women on the profiles page. They approach
us and if we think they've contributed enough to Debian and are active
members of Debian Women, they are put there.

How we function is pretty basic: negativity is uncalled for and we don't
respond well to it, if at all. As time goes on we evolve to meet certain
desires or needs as they arise. Requesting -- nay, demanding -- we evolve to
meet your needs when you have not shown any vested interest in the group in
any way, nor do you wish to contribute anything positive, is sure to be met
with silence at best, hostility at worst. (I discourage the latter and I
think we've improved in that area as well.)

off the chain like a rebellious guanine nucleotide

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