Re: Question for candidate Towns [Was, Re: DPL election IRC Debate - Call for questions]
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 03:29:58AM -0800, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Sven Luther wrote:
> >Well, i guess people get rather irritated if sending email to ftp-master
> >address for things that are mostly reasonable could as well go to
> Sure, of course they are, and so they should be. I can fairly readily
> find 52k more reasons for people to be irritated with Debian too, the
> most recent numbered 298050. I'm pretty sure I could come up with some
> more beyond that too.
> >so i guess it is mostly a communication problem.
> But that's not really true either, in my opinion. The issue isn't
> whether you get a mail back saying "Thankyou for your letter, you have
> been placed in a priority queue, you are currently at position #548.
> Please hold. Tralalalalalala." -- it's whether things get done: whether
> NEW gets processed, removals get done, sections get updated, support for
> new architectures, features, packages, whatever get implemented.
Yeah, but it would be nice to get at least a little notice when you send a
nice email to ftp-masters asking to please get a NEW processing for a given
package since it is *NEEDED* for the d-i rc3 deadline which is approaching
fast. Complete silence is in my opinion not in order on this.
And there is clearly a subgroup of people who know how to approach the
ftp-masters through irc to accelerate the processing. But i don't think this
should be the canonical approach to this.
> As a concrete example, I don't think
> resolves the complaints about NEW and hence I don't think that the NEW
> issue is an example of a communication problem at all.
I on the contrary think so, the above is nice though and i didn't knew about
this, but communication goes both ways.
> >You wouldn't accept this kind of behavior from DDs on their package
> That's not true. Plenty of DDs are non-responsive for one reason or
> other, and it's perfectly acceptable; we even have documented procedures
> to deal with that -- NMUs, vacation reports, and QA among other things.
Ok, so you advocate NMUing the ftp-masters on NEW processing, i am all in
favor for that :) Well, it is not really possible, which is why this is a
> It's completely acceptable for volunteers to spend their time how they
> see fit, prioritising the work they think's most important, or
> prioritising other parts of their life over Debian if they think that's
Sure. But by doing so, they stale the work of others, especially as things are
important for the release schedule.
> That's not to that I don't think it's worth improving this and finding
> ways to encourage people to commit more time to Debian or to use that
> time more effectively; and for this particular case I've already
> described what activity I think would lead to the biggest improvement.
> >but it is perfectly normal for the ftp-masters to do it ?
> Meanwhile, I think claims like "You wouldn't accept this from normal
> people, but it's standard procedure for ftpmaster" are likely to simply
> exacerbate the problem.
How well, i am grilled with the ftp-masters anyway, so ...
> YMMV, of course, and if it does, you might well be right while I'm
> wrong. Whatever experience I have might provide a better basis for my
> judgements to rest upon than yours have; or it might mean I'm too close
> to the problem and completely off-track.
> >And it is worse since the email don't come from random users, but from the
> >exact same DDs who are all working together to make it all happen.
> Ideally all requests from everybody would be acted upon quickly and
> effectively; but that's not feasible, so they get prioritised. Taking
> developers more seriously than users, or release managers more seriously
> than developers are just two variants of the same prioritisation scheme,
> so I don't think it's worse at all.
yeah, but for packages, we have the QA team, which can take over, or some
random developer looking at the MIA status of a developer or a package can
take over. For the ftp-masters this is not only not possible, but any critic
is often rejected and there is a certain amount of taboo going on, which then
explodes in huge flames, and the ftp-master feel aggressed by it, and don't
react and then you go in circle again.
And again to my purely technical question. Is it really necessary for
kernel-source-2.6.11 to go through NEW once it is uploaded for example ?