Re: Dec 15 voting amendment draft
>>"Anthony" == Anthony Towns <email@example.com> writes:
> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:25:46PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> I guess I must be dense. All that the item is saying that one
>> does not tack on unrelated amendments to a GR a la US congress.
> There's two things: one is keeping amendments related to the original
> part (which I'm not sure that what we've currently got really does that),
> and the other is manufacturing options to vote on, by extending, say:
> Original Resolution
> Original Resolution, amended according to A
> Original Resolution, amended according to B
> Original Resolution, amended according to C
> ...to also include:
> Original Resolution, amended according to A and B (*)
> Original Resolution, amended according to A and C (*)
> (as a "sensible combination of amendments"). Working out that "B and C"
> can't be "sensibly" applied together should probably be a job for the
> people who'd vote for "O + B and C", not the secretary.
Ooh. The full impact of your wording just struck me. So,
rather than the secretary taking the amendments, and then tacking on
``sensible combinations'' on the ballot, we let people propose
amendments that are combinations of previous amendments, and the
secretary merely lists _all_ proposed amendments, including those
that are combinations of other amendments, on the ballot.
OK, I'm with you on this.
> I'm not sure; there are certainly some votes where there's no default
> option, it's not clear to me which ones are held using the whole of
> appendix A, and which are only held using A.6. 4.2(4) requires an
> immediate vote with no quorum, and I'm not sure if a default option
> makes an incredible amount of sense.
> See 4.2(4). Also, A.6 assumes there's a default option; if there's
> not always (and there isn't -- the tech ctte leadership elections
> don't have one) then the rules that discuss the default option
> should probably be preceeded by an "If there is a default
That answers my question -- yes, 4.2(4) and 6.1(7) specify
cases in which there is a vote with no default option.
> If there's always to be a default option when all of A is used, that
> should be written: "Unless otherwise specified, the default option is
> Further Discussion" -- quorum is irrelevant.
I think I am leaning towards this. I could not grok why there
should be a connection between quorum and a default option -- this
makes things simpler, and makes more sense, to me.
It also allows one to express a dissatisfaction with the
potential results in a vote with no explicit quorum requirements --
(arguably, A.3(2) says there is a supermajority of 1:1 be default).
> Whether particular amendments should be considered separate or not
> isn't strictly procedural IMO; it'd at least be good to kill the bit
> in brackets, which afaict is the only bit of procedure that's not spelt
> out. I have no problem with the rest of it.
> ie, the steps I'm suggesting are:
> 1. If there's a default option, satisfy quorum and supermajority
> [this leaves us with the default option, and those other
> options that satisify q & sm; or else it leaves all
> the options
> 2. Apply cloneproof-SSD
> [this does nothing but eliminate defeats / break ties, so
> while it reduces the size of the Schwartz set, never
> empties it; if we've got a default option, it's either
> the only option, or its not in the Schwartz set ever]
> 3. Choose a winner from the Schwartz set
> Does that make sense yet?
Does to me.
Here is the latest version of the draft, with, hopefully, all
the changes in. Unless there are objections, perhaps we should
formally propose and second this draft, and set a discussion time of
a week or so, to let people on -devel weigh in on this if they wish
(since we have been discussing this _for ever_, I think the short
discussion period is justified).
Under 4.2 Procedure [for developers during a general resolution or
election], change item 3 to read:
3. Votes are taken by the Project Secretary. Votes, tallies, and
results are not revealed during the voting period; after the
vote the Project Secretary lists all the votes cast. The voting
period is 2 weeks, but may be varied by up to 1 week by the
Project Leader, and may be ended by the Project Secretary when
enough voters have voted that even if every remaining voter
voted in opposition to the winner the outcome would remain the
same. In this context, we ignore the possibility that people
might want to change their vote.
Under 5.2 Appointment of project leader, change item 7 to read:
7. The decision will be made using the method specified in section
A.6 of the Standard Resolution Procedure. The quorum is the
same as for a General Resolution (s.4.2) and the default
option is "None Of The Above".
Under 6.1 Powers [of the technical committee], change item 7 to read:
7. Appoint the Chairman of the Technical Committee. The Chairman
is elected by the Committee from its members. All members of
the committee are automatically nominated; the committee vote
starting one week before the post will become vacant (or
immediately, if it is already too late). The members may vote
by public acclamation for any fellow committee member,
including themselves; there is no default option. The vote
finishes when all the members have voted or when the outcome is
no longer in doubt. The result is determined using the method
specified in section A.6 of the Standard Resolution Procedure.
Under A.2 Calling for a vote, change item 2 to read
2. The proposer or any sponsor of a resolution may call for a vote on that
resolution and all related amendments.
Replace A.3 with:
A.3. Voting procedure
1. Each resolution and its related amendments is voted on in a
single ballot, that includes an option for the original
resolution, each amendment, and, where applicable, the default
2. The default option must not have any supermajority requirements.
Options which do not have an explicit supermajority requirement
have a 1:1 majority requirement.
3. The votes are counted according to the the rules in A.6.
Unless otherwise specified, the default option is Further
4. In cases of doubt the Project Secretary shall decide on matters
Replace A.5 with:
If a proposed resolution has not been discussed, amended, voted on or
otherwise dealt with for 4 weeks the secretary may issue a statement
that the issue is being withdrawn. If none of the sponsors of any
of the proposals object within a week, the issue is withdrawn.
The secretary may also include suggestions on how to proceed,
Replace A.6 with:
A.6 Vote Counting
1. Each voter's ballot ranks the options being voted on. Not all
options need be ranked. Ranked options are considered
preferred to all unranked options. Voters may rank options
equally. Unranked options are considered to be ranked equally
with one another. Details of how ballots may be filled out
will be included in the Call For Votes.
2. If the ballot has a quorum requirement (Q) any options other
than the default option which do not receive at least Q votes
ranking that option above the default option are dropped from
3. Any (non-default) option which does not defeat the default option
by its required majority ratio is dropped from consideration.
a. Given two options A and B, V(A,B) is the number of voters
who prefer option A over option B.
b. An option, A, defeats the default option, D, by a ratio, N,
if V(A,D) is strictly greater than N * V(D,A).
c. If a supermajority of S:1 is required for A, it's majority ratio
is S, otherwise it's majority ratio is 1.
4. We construct the Schwartz set based on undropped options and
a. An option A defeats an option B, if V(A,B) is strictl
greater than V(B,A).
b. An option A transitively defeats an option C if A defeats
C or if there is some other option B where A defeats B
AND B transitively defeats C.
c. An option A is in the Schwartz set if for all options B,
either A transitively defeats B, or B does not transitively
5. If there are defeats between options in the Schwartz set, we
drop the weakest such defeats, and return to step 4.
a. A defeat (A,X) is weaker than a defeat (B,Y) if V(A,X)
is less than V(B,Y). Also, (A,X) is weaker than (B,Y)
if V(A,X) is equal to V(B,Y) and V(X,A) is greater than
b. A weakest defeat is a defeat that has no other defeat
weaker than it. There may be more than one such defeat.
6. If there are no defeats within the Schwartz set, then the winner
is chosen from the options in the Schwartz set. If there is
only one such option, it is the winner. If there are multiple
options, the elector with a casting vote chooses which of those
"RATIONALE": Options which the voters rank above the default option
are options they find acceptable. Options ranked below the default
options are options they find unacceptable.
manic-depressive, adj.: Easy glum, easy glow.
Manoj Srivastava <firstname.lastname@example.org> <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
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