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Re: debian-user-digest Digest V2023 #416



Hi, I am new here.  Can anybody help me with this; I have a 2021 Macbook Pro 16" and am trying to install Debian via USB to USB C.  The boot loader is recognizing the keyboard and trackpad on the 2007 keyboard I want to use but the OS will not recognize it once opened.  I only have one USB - USB C connector.  Any help would be appreciated.  Thank you.
On Sat, May 6, 2023 at 8:34 PM <debian-user-digest-request@lists.debian.org> wrote:
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debian-user-digest Digest                               Volume 2023 : Issue 416

Today's Topics:
  Re: disk usage for /usr/lib on bulls  [ David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co ]
  Re: Logging off an X session closes   [ <tomas@tuxteam.de> ]
  Re: bind9 and dns forward             [ Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> ]
  Gnome Evolution charset question      [ Byung-Hee HWANG =?UTF-8?Q?=28=E9=BB ]
  Re: Gnome Evolution charset question  [ Alex <alex@blueselene.com> ]
  Re: Gnome Evolution charset question  [ Byung-Hee HWANG =?UTF-8?Q?=28=E9=BB ]
  Re: I installed 11.6                  [ Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> ]
  Re: I installed 11.6                  [ Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfoll ]
  Re: I installed 11.6                  [ gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> ]
  Re: I installed 11.6                  [ David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerd ]
  Re: Wi-Fi broken on Dell E6520, Inte  [ David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerd ]
  Re: repeat of previous question that  [ Alex King <alex@king.net.nz> ]
  Re: repeat of previous question that  [ David <curmudgeon@telaman.net.au> ]
Date: Fri, 5 May 2023 23:51:33 -0500
From: David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
To: "debian-user@lists.debian.org" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: disk usage for /usr/lib on bullseye
Message-ID: <[🔎] ZFXc1Yuf2qRmRqje@axis.corp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
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On Fri 05 May 2023 at 14:35:08 (+0000), Bonno Bloksma wrote:
> As I was trying to find out what would work and if I was doing something wrong getting rid of old kernels....
>
> After upgrading a new kernel for a week I will do apt autoremove to get rid of the old kernel(s).

And this will produce the situation you have with 16 and 17:

  linutr:/usr/lib/modules# du * -sh
  4.7M    5.10.0-16-amd64
  4.7M    5.10.0-17-amd64
  309M    5.10.0-18-amd64
  309M    5.10.0-19-amd64
  309M    5.10.0-20-amd64
  309M    5.10.0-21-amd64

You need to run   apt --purge autoremove   in order to remove the
files that aren't in the linux-package that you installed. Look:

  $ ls -Glg /lib/modules/5.10.0-21-amd64/
  total 4968
  drwxr-xr-x 12    4096 Jan 23 21:45 kernel
  -rw-r--r--  1 1241172 Jan 23 21:46 modules.alias
  -rw-r--r--  1 1187730 Jan 23 21:46 modules.alias.bin
  -rw-r--r--  1    5541 Jan 21 08:35 modules.builtin
  -rw-r--r--  1       0 Jan 23 21:46 modules.builtin.alias.bin
  -rw-r--r--  1    6754 Jan 23 21:46 modules.builtin.bin
  -rw-r--r--  1   38430 Jan 21 08:35 modules.builtin.modinfo
  -rw-r--r--  1  498055 Jan 23 21:46 modules.dep
  -rw-r--r--  1  671751 Jan 23 21:46 modules.dep.bin
  -rw-r--r--  1     476 Jan 23 21:46 modules.devname
  -rw-r--r--  1  154011 Jan 21 08:35 modules.order
  -rw-r--r--  1    1067 Jan 23 21:46 modules.softdep
  -rw-r--r--  1  562879 Jan 23 21:46 modules.symbols
  -rw-r--r--  1  685618 Jan 23 21:46 modules.symbols.bin
  $

apt (auto)remove   only removes the package files, dated Jan 21.
The ones here dated Jan 23 were generated when the package was
installed, and are only removed when you /purge/ the package.

> Debian will automatically keep the current kernel and the previous in the /boot folder.
> Somehow, I get the feeling there either is a bug which causes the /usr/lib/modules/ folder not to be cleaned up or there are somehow links to it from packages that were updated when a specific kernel was active.

> But.... is this a bug in the cleanup of an old kernel or are there realy links to the old modules, links that are now broken?
> If it s a bug, who will report it? I know only enough to report the symptoms.

Someone who demonstrates it. AFAICT you don't seem to be aware of
the --purge option and the necessity of using it here, and have
likely just forgotten to even run apt autoremove in the case of
versions 18 and 19 above (where the modules are also present).

On Fri 05 May 2023 at 11:54:55 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, May 05, 2023 at 02:35:08PM +0000, Bonno Bloksma wrote:
> > Just created a snapshot of my servers and then did:
[ … ]
> It seems like you're just trying random commands without understanding
> what they do.

Agreed. It makes you wonder how much in this thread that was written
about these commands has been absorbed.

> > I am now cleaning some by hand. Running kernel -22 and having -21 as backup kernel I did:
> > xxxxx:/usr/lib/modules# rm -rd 5.10.0-16-amd64/
> > xxxxx:/usr/lib/modules# rm -rd 5.10.0-17-amd64/
> > xxxxx:/usr/lib/modules# rm -rd 5.10.0-18-amd64/
>
> One imagines that if you simply purged all of the kernel packages that
> had been autoremoved, this would clean up the modules.  But I'm not
> 100% sure about that.  If you've got modules that were built by dkms
> for example, I don't know whether those would be removed.

Custom modules would remain, and the rest of the directory tree
removed. This is confirmed by the postrm script, which disposes
of the equivalents to those files dated Jan 23 above.

  if [ "$1" = purge ]; then
      for extra_file in modules.dep modules.isapnpmap modules.pcimap \
                        modules.usbmap modules.parportmap \
                        modules.generic_string modules.ieee1394map \
                        modules.ieee1394map modules.pnpbiosmap \
                        modules.alias modules.ccwmap modules.inputmap \
                        modules.symbols modules.ofmap \
                        modules.seriomap modules.\*.bin \
                        modules.softdep modules.devname; do
          eval rm -f /lib/modules/$version/$extra_file
      done
      rmdir /lib/modules/$version || true
  fi

> It would be nice to know whether you had to do this "rm -r" because the
> "dpkg --purge linux-image-5.10.0-16-amd64" failed to remove the modules,
> or whether you simply did not KNOW to try the dpkg --purge first.

I don't think dpkg had yet been suggested as a solution, but it would
do just the same thing, because that is what APT itself uses of course.
Again, custom files would remain, with the usual

  dpkg: warning: while removing x, directory 'y' not empty so not removed

message as a reminder.

Cheers,
David.
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 07:07:06 +0200
From:  <tomas@tuxteam.de>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Logging off an X session closes all ssh -X connections started
 previously from outside X
Message-ID: <[🔎] ZFXgegfoxdx6OgCX@tuxteam.de" target="_blank">[🔎] ZFXgegfoxdx6OgCX@tuxteam.de>
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On Sat, May 06, 2023 at 10:24:52AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 05/05/2023 20:04, zithro wrote:
> > journalctl after GUI LOGOFF
>=20
> I do not see obvious problems. What might be inspected more closely:
>=20
> > May 05 14:09:14 debzit systemd[711]: Stopping D-Bus User Message Bus...
>                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> If it is the bus shared with ssh connection than it may be an issue,
> however it is for systemd unit, real process may be running independently.

This would be easy to find out. @zithro: how many instances of dbus
are running once you have started all your processes *and* logged
in to the DE session?

If it's only one user dbus, then logging out is taking that one away.

Perhaps this would be an interesting data point:

 1 ps wwaux | grep dbus; keep the result
 2 start all your programs; don't log in into your DE yet
 3 repeat 1
 4 log into your DE
 5 repeat 1
 6 log out; your programs get killed
 7 repeat 1

Now compare the results of 1, 3, 5 and 7. Then,we would know whether
your DE is re-using the user session bus (possibly) started at 2
and taking it out at 6.

This is my hunch.

Then, at least, you'd know whom to yell at :-)

Cheers
--=20
t

--Ny7+0JRQSfAVW2me
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Date: Sat, 06 May 2023 08:54:52 +0200
From: Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: bind9 and dns forward
Message-Id: <[🔎] 87o7myt0ww.fsf@free.fr" target="_blank">[🔎] 87o7myt0ww.fsf@free.fr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
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Le 5 mai 2023 Bonno Bloksma a =C3=A9crit :

> linbobo:/etc/bind# cat named.conf.local

You have only zone blocks in this file, right ?
And you don't use views ?

> Why does it first go to the public dns and then run into the dnssec probl=
em? There is a direct definition for the tio.nl zone in my config file.=20

The public dns don't answer at all, so dnssec problem is only a
consequence. The main problem seems to be the broken forwarding.
Do you restart or flush your bind before the queries ? I suppose you do
but... :)

Your tio.nl zone seems correct. Could you provide full
/etc/bind/named.conf.options and /etc/bind/named.conf ?
Date: Sat, 06 May 2023 20:59:38 +0900
From: Byung-Hee HWANG =?UTF-8?Q?=28=E9=BB=83=E7=82=B3=E7=86=99=29?=
         <soyeomul@doraji.xyz>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Gnome Evolution charset question
Message-ID: <[🔎] 2a690eddaac78226da39ab9a00c68c9ed20c10af.camel@doraji.xyz" target="_blank">[🔎] 2a690eddaac78226da39ab9a00c68c9ed20c10af.camel@doraji.xyz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hellow,

I was using Gnome Evolution for a while.
Most are good. But Headers' charset is odd.

Evolution's Content-Type is *always* UTF-8.
In my case, however, From's my name and Organization header and Subject
header, these headers are encoded by [EUC-KR].

That is feature? Or that is bug?

In contrast, Mozilla Thunderbird does encoding all charset by [UTF-8].

My point is that:
Evolution should do encoding by UTF-8 *really* like as Thunderbird.


Sincerely, Byung-Hee (Korean Debian user)

--=20
^=EA=B3=A0=EB=A7=99=EC=8A=B5=EB=8B=88=EB=8B=A4 _=E5=B8=83=E5=BE=B7=E5=A4=A9=
=E4=B8=8B_ =EA=B0=90=EC=82=AC=ED=95=A9=EB=8B=88=EB=8B=A4_^))//
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 14:03:26 +0200
From: Alex <alex@blueselene.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Gnome Evolution charset question
Message-ID: <[🔎] 20230506140326.3ba5e1fe@blueselene.com" target="_blank">[🔎] 20230506140326.3ba5e1fe@blueselene.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/S187iBlnIN5BPz.dYr2Fc6C";
 protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256

--Sig_/S187iBlnIN5BPz.dYr2Fc6C
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On Sat, 06 May 2023 20:59:38 +0900
Byung-Hee HWANG (=E9=BB=83=E7=82=B3=E7=86=99)  <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> wrote:

> My point is that:
> Evolution should do encoding by UTF-8 *really* like as Thunderbird.

You should bring this up at
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evolution/-/issues, or at their mailing
list.

--=20
Current PGP KeyID: 0AFB427F1800FD89751C4035292228735AE707FF

https://blueselene.com/pgp-archive/0AFB427F1800FD89751C4035292228735AE707FF=
/key.pub

My previous key has been revoked, make sure to import it again to
update your keyring:
https://blueselene.com/pgp-archive/11ADE4393600C1BDFFCBC0A598DE15942B08CA00=
/key.pub=20


For up-to-date information on my crypto keys see
https://blueselene.com/crypto.html

--Sig_/S187iBlnIN5BPz.dYr2Fc6C
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=qDEd
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--Sig_/S187iBlnIN5BPz.dYr2Fc6C--
Date: Sat, 06 May 2023 21:25:56 +0900
From: Byung-Hee HWANG =?UTF-8?Q?=28=E9=BB=83=E7=82=B3=E7=86=99=29?=
         <soyeomul@doraji.xyz>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Gnome Evolution charset question
Message-ID: <[🔎] 7f7dfd78b640336f559ea757b7f87ba979ee6a93.camel@doraji.xyz" target="_blank">[🔎] 7f7dfd78b640336f559ea757b7f87ba979ee6a93.camel@doraji.xyz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, 2023-05-06 at 14:03 +0200, Alex wrote:
> On Sat, 06 May 2023 20:59:38 +0900
> Byung-Hee HWANG (=E9=BB=83=E7=82=B3=E7=86=99)=C2=A0 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz>=
 wrote:
>=20
> > My point is that:
> > Evolution should do encoding by UTF-8 *really* like as Thunderbird.
>=20
> You should bring this up at
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evolution/-/issues, or at their
> mailing
> list.
>=20

Thanks, Alex!=C2=A0
If i am sure this is bug, i'll push this question someday far later.


And for a while, i'll use below trick:
<quote>
alias evo=3D'LANG=3Den_US.UTF-8 evolution &'
</quote>

That bypasses [EUC-KR] in Evolution.


Sincerely, Byung-Hee (Korean Debian user)

--=20
^=EA=B3=A0=EB=A7=99=EC=8A=B5=EB=8B=88=EB=8B=A4 _=E5=B8=83=E5=BE=B7=E5=A4=A9=
=E4=B8=8B_ =EA=B0=90=EC=82=AC=ED=95=A9=EB=8B=88=EB=8B=A4_^))//
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 09:02:18 -0400
From: Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: I installed 11.6
Message-ID: <[🔎] ZFZP2ijopAjxYmho@wooledge.org" target="_blank">[🔎] ZFZP2ijopAjxYmho@wooledge.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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On Fri, May 05, 2023 at 11:27:45PM -0400, Maureen L Thomas wrote:
> I installed debian 11.6 and updated the needed packages to 11.7.

> I hate upgrading because they change everything

An upgrade from 11.x to 11.y should not have too many visible changes.
It's a minor "point release" upgrade, which in an ideal world would
only contain security patches and bug fixes.

Occasionally there's a visible change that makes its way in, but it
shouldn't be major.

You should get in the habit of applying *all* of the point release
updates, every time.  Keep your system up to date on security patches,
and your life will be a lot simpler.
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 09:40:50 -0400
From: Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: I installed 11.6
Message-ID: <[🔎] ZFZY4vL2Eo3k62JN@Oppenheimer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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On Fri, May 05, 2023 at 11:27:45PM -0400, Maureen L Thomas wrote:
> I installed debian 11.6 and updated the needed packages to 11.7. I must say
> that I hate upgrading because they change everything and I cannot find the
> utilities I need to make this the way I want it.  Does anyone know which
> utility changes the window settings. Like the X in the upper right hand
> corner.  I want all three items including the - and the box.
>
Updates should not change any user settings but I take your word for it.
If you have a default install (GNOME DE) to get your Title Bar customized
you will use GNOME Tweaks. In the application menu this shows up just as
"Tweaks". There is a menu item "Window Titlebar" ther you canenable the
minimize and maximize icons and where these re placed (left or right).

HTH
-H



--
Henning Follmann           | hfollmann@itcfollmann.com
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 12:18:39 -0400
From: gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: I installed 11.6
Message-ID: <[🔎] 0fdeaaec-b87f-8970-e488-c19842da3850@shentel.net" target="_blank">[🔎] 0fdeaaec-b87f-8970-e488-c19842da3850@shentel.net>
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On 5/6/23 09:03, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, May 05, 2023 at 11:27:45PM -0400, Maureen L Thomas wrote:
>> I installed debian 11.6 and updated the needed packages to 11.7.
>
>> I hate upgrading because they change everything
>
> An upgrade from 11.x to 11.y should not have too many visible changes.
> It's a minor "point release" upgrade, which in an ideal world would
> only contain security patches and bug fixes.
>
> Occasionally there's a visible change that makes its way in, but it
> shouldn't be major.
>
> You should get in the habit of applying *all* of the point release
> updates, every time.  Keep your system up to date on security patches,
> and your life will be a lot simpler.
>
Everything but the rpi4 got a new avahi this morning and that changed my
cups problems around considerably, but I've not had a chance yet to do a
full survey. Indications are that some busters are now blocked also.
> .

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 12:35:35 -0700
From: David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: I installed 11.6
Message-ID: <[🔎] 3770cd83-6438-0014-96e9-79fba279d9af@holgerdanske.com" target="_blank">[🔎] 3770cd83-6438-0014-96e9-79fba279d9af@holgerdanske.com>
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On 5/5/23 20:27, Maureen L Thomas wrote:
> I installed debian 11.6 and updated the needed packages to 11.7. I must
> say that I hate upgrading because they change everything and I cannot
> find the utilities I need to make this the way I want it.  Does anyone
> know which utility changes the window settings. Like the X in the upper
> right hand corner.  I want all three items including the - and the box.
>
> Thank you guys for all your help.


I am glad that you were able to install Debian.  You should now have a
working computer.  I assume that you are now configuring the operating
system, desktop, applications, etc., and restoring your data.


Once you reach stability, it would be good to take an image of the OS
drive.  If and when you suffer another disaster, restoring an image is
much faster and more reliable than installing, configuring, and
restoring from scratch.  Clonezilla is the obvious choice:

https://clonezilla.org/


While drag-and-drop to a USB HDD is the KISS backup method, there is a
fundamental issue: what happens the next time you backup?  If you
overwrite/delete the previous backup set, then you only have one backup
of each file.  If you make another complete backup set, then you fill up
your backup media quickly.  There are more efficient backup solutions
available.  You should pick one and implement it:

https://wiki.debian.org/BackupAndRecovery


Burning data to optical media (archiving) with Brasero is still a good
idea.  Over time, the media containing your images and backups (e.g. USB
HDD) will fill up and you will need to delete older images and backups
to make room for new images and backups.  Archives are how you keep data
indefinitely.


Finally, get another USB HDD.  Keep one connected to your computer, keep
one off-site, and rotate them periodically.  When one fails, you will
still have images and backups.


David
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 13:55:32 -0700
From: David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Wi-Fi broken on Dell E6520, Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 AGN,
 Debian 11.7 Xfce
Message-ID: <[🔎] bb3dc31e-fb42-96ca-06cb-546f72fd5442@holgerdanske.com" target="_blank">[🔎] bb3dc31e-fb42-96ca-06cb-546f72fd5442@holgerdanske.com>
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

debian-user:

I did some more trouble-shooting and found a better solution:

* Dell Latitude E6520 used as desktop/admin on SOHO network:

2023-05-06 13:51:42 root@laalaa ~
# cat /etc/debian_version;uname -a;dpkg-query -W xfce4;lspci|grep Centrino
11.7
Linux laalaa 5.10.0-22-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.178-3 (2023-04-22)
x86_64 GNU/Linux
xfce4   4.16
03:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Advanced-N 6205
[Taylor Peak] (rev 34)

* Default Setup/CMOS/NVRAM settings:

       Settings
       + Wireless
         + Wireless Switch
         |    WWAN           checked
         |    WLAN           checked
         |    Bluetooth      checked
         +  Wireless Device Enable
              WWAN           checked
              WLAN           checked
              Bluetooth      checked

*  Network Manager settings:

     Xfce panel
     -> right click NetworkManager Applet
     -> Edit Connections
     -> Wi-Fi
     -> wifi.tracy.holgerdanske.com
     -> gear (Edit the selected  connection)

             General
                 Connect automatically with priority 0
             Wi-Fi
                 SSID wifi.tracy.holgerdanske.com
                 Device wlp3s0
             Wi-Fi Security
                 Security WPA & WPA2 Personal
                 Password ********
             Proxy
                 Method None
             IPv4 Settings
                 Method Automatic (DHCP)
             IPv6 Settings
                 Method Automatic


Now when I boot and login, Wi-Fi connects automatically.  :-)


David
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 11:02:11 +1200
From: Alex King <alex@king.net.nz>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes.
Message-ID: <[🔎] 622f1291-78ff-98e8-bd7d-183d787a58b7@king.net.nz" target="_blank">[🔎] 622f1291-78ff-98e8-bd7d-183d787a58b7@king.net.nz>
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Printing on Linux is poor.  CUPS is poor.  It doesn't work for some (a
lot?) of people.

I have a Brother HL-L2300D printer.  It is connected to my (Debian
bullseye) workstation by USB.  I have CUPS installed.

My printer prints sometime.  Other times, it spins up (makes a noise
like it is about to start printing), but nothing comes out. I can't get
any useful diagnostics to tell me where the problem might be.

My parents, who live some distance away have an HP inkjet printer.  It
works sometimes.  Other times it doesn't.  I get it set up so it's
working and it might work for a while, but it will stop working for no
reason.  There might be several queues for the printer; some work and
some just don't.  A working queue will stop working for no discernible
reason.  Working queues will disappear, new queues will appear seemingly
at random.  The print system will default to an automatically provided
queue that could never work, because it relies on some software
component that is not installed.... etc... etc...

Between my parents and my own system, I have spent 10s or 100s of hours
trying to get a reliable printing system over decades, with many
different printers.  Maybe there were periods where printing worked OK. 
But I haven't managed to achieve reliable printing in the medium term.

I read ESR https://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html, and my
personal experience is that nothing much has changed in the "driverless"
era.

I've been a sysadmin for 30 odd years, configuring different aspects of
linux (webservers, email servers, DNS, networking, desktop environments
etc.) using open source software.  Some problems are difficult to solve,
but I've always found that having a good basic understanding, checking
logs, using tools to confirm what is happening, and doing research on
how things work, allows me to solve those problems eventually.

Not so with CUPS and printing.  I have tried many different approaches
(e.g. * reinstall from scratch, accept the default packages and default
options.  * go to the linux printing site and follow the recommended
method for my model of printer * try to understand how CUPS works, set
up as statically and simply as possible, and use standard tools to
troubleshoot printing failures.)  I have not succeeded with any approach.

It could be that I have struck certain models of printer with bugs. 
Hardware and firmware bugs exist, and not just in printers.  However, I
don't find hardware or firmware bugs cause me significant pain as there
are normally software or configuration based work-arounds/allowances for
them in Debian. Except for printers.  These same printer models work
much more reliably in MacOS and Windows.

Back in the lpr/lpd days things were more reliable.

Is there a deeper problem affecting printing on linux?  I asked work
colleagues and got two responses:

"oh, shit.  you’re actually printing from linux.  my condolences.', and

"I use Epson and Ubuntu, never had an issue with print over IP - so I
can attest to drivers working from that perspective atleast"

My perspective is that there is a significant issue, at least for a
portion of users.

Implying the user is at fault (which Brian isn't necessarily doing
here,) or acting surprised when someone has trouble printing, is like
gaslighting.  Maybe it works OK for you, but please understand that is
not the general case.  Debian can't support every printer for every
user, but knowing that, CUPS should come with a health warning:  "We
supply this software as-is in the knowledge that it has known faults,
and will not work reliably for all users.  We wish there were a way that
Debian users could reliably print, but there is not.  You may get some
help on Debian User, but in general printing is not supported."

Thanks,
Alex

On 6/05/23 05:45, Brian wrote:
> Your conclusion is that the printing system is in itself is defective and that is
> reflected in your response.
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 10:03:20 +1000
From: David <curmudgeon@telaman.net.au>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: repeat of previous question that has gone
 unansweredseveraltimes.
Message-ID: <[🔎] 694d340c7fcc0279352684feeb03f13c7b33c317.camel@telaman.net.au" target="_blank">[🔎] 694d340c7fcc0279352684feeb03f13c7b33c317.camel@telaman.net.au>
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On Sun, 2023-05-07 at 11:02 +1200, Alex King wrote:
> Printing on Linux is poor.=C2=A0 CUPS is poor.=C2=A0 It doesn't work for =""> some
> (a=20
> lot?) of people.

I bought an Epson WF-C5290 18 months ago, connected it up, installed
the Linux driver provided on the Epson site, and it has been as solid
as a rock.
Very happy with it.
Cheers!

<snip>

--=20
A Kiwi in Australia,
doing my bit toward raising the national standard.

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