Re: advisable to use installer script?
On 4/6/20 9:33 PM, Reco wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 08:49:53PM +0200, Alex Mestiashvili wrote:
>> Regarding Python and R modules of unknown quality. What quality?
>
> My question exactly. Who build it? From which source? What toolchain was
> in use? How can I build the same in a reproduceable way? What else was
> bundled along the way? What about upgrading and deleting a module
> (installing is always the easiest part)?
R packages and python modules as everything else packageable for Debian
comes as source code, so how it is build is up to you and tools you use.
Even more, binary packages might be suboptimal compared to locally built
ones.
>
>
>> Debian doesn't magically make any python module better or safer.
>
> Yet it's known which source was used, which toolchain was there and
> there are guarantees that the module in question does not change its
> behaviour in the next five minutes.
There is no problem to track all the above with most open source
projects. It's open source, nobody prevents you from checking every bit.
> Oh, and there are distribution-specific patches which *do* make packages
> better and safer, python included. And, what's most important here -
> compatible with *other* packages.
That's the different thing and that's one of the strong sides of Debian,
totally agree here.
>
>
>> Debian just packages a python module provided by upstream and can
>> possibly provide some additional patches and support.
>
> Nope, see above. Building a distribution is an engineering task more
> complex than you seem to think it is.
I guess we are talking about different things, people are asking not
about adopting dpkg for their linux from scratch, but about installing a
software. Most users don't care about 90% of the stuff you mentioned.
The only thing they care about is working software. And even not the
software, but the goal they solve with it. Software is a tool. And they
are not interested in the internals.
>
>
>> There are pros and cons for both apt and conda, but it totally depends
>> on the use case.
>
> Sure. On apt's side there's unified way to install/upgrade/delete
> anything, and on conda's side there's turning your system into
> Slackware.
I am not convinced. I don't use conda but I am pretty sure it can do all
above and even more. It's just different and has it's own strong sides.
Btw, are you aware that gitlab instance for salsa.debian.org is not
using packaged gitlab?
There are many softwares which simply don't fit into Debian's paradigm
of a packaging. But nevertheless they are useful and open source.
>
>
>> So in general it is totally fine to use anaconda installer.
>
> I agree. They call the Debian the Universal OS because it can take an
> impressive amount of such punishment from the determined user *and*
> remain operational to a certain degree.
> And it's hardly matters whenever the offending "tool" is called conda,
> pip or docker.
Don't forget cpan, rvm, maven and so on. They all have their niche as
well as apt.
>
> Reco
>
Best,
Alex
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