Re: A call to drop gnome
On Tuesday 16 April 2019 07:01:25 Reco wrote:
> Hi.
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 10:38:38AM +0000, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
> > >>>>> "R" == Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> writes:
>
> I *have* to object to this ☺ In C this comparison equals false.
> Have you meant '"R" = Reco' (i.e. assignment)?
>
> > R> No. What I wrote that for several years you had the possibility
> > to R> run GNOME on Wayland. And it will be the default in the next
> > stable R> Debian. Because (and here you're correct) - upstream
> > wants that R> everyone use the GNOME that way.
> >
> > As long as using X is supported without requiring triple backward
> > sommersault to install it, fine. Almost fine. Because HW support
> > stuff should be independent from the user front end.
Agreed.
> As we saw two weeks ago, the decision to run GNOME on Wayland
> backfired at synaptic. To rephrase, why bother running X if there are
> no applications left to run on X?
I think that must be in the back of their minds. But that is something
you never ever tell the frogs.
> > >> I say this is NOT freedom.
So do I.
> > R> The usual arguments apply. Don't like it - patch it. Patches are
> > R> welcome.
I wondered how long it would take for that phrase to emerge, so everyone
in a position of control can hide behind it yet again.
> > Say, "can you translate Odissey from ancient greek to Rovigo
> > dialect?"
>
> Nope. But I can pay to someone who does, assuming that I want such
> translation. Same as everyone else.
>
> > That is a petty example (if you can, my kudos!), patching is not a
> > thing this easy to do. You have to be a programmer good enought,
> > then you have to understando how the program works and how to change
> > it. Then you have to write the changes and possibly test it against
> > existing test cases, it requires skills, it requires time.
>
> ... and there are those who did it already. But then again, for me
> GNOME project went off-rails (usability POV, not a technical one) long
> time ago. Patching the GNOME to restore sane behaviour is harder than
> avoiding it.
+1000!
Where the heck in its confusing menu's can I find a tab supporting
terminal so I can get something done? Go ahead, find it, my coffee needs
to cool anyway..
> > Gnome goal is noble, to let unskilled users use it.
>
> I recall hearing similar rhetoric 25 years ago. Some Operating System
> who's name starts with big W, and it had 4-color flag for logo. Some
> say that rise in popularity of said OS involved an unspecified amount
> of unconventional off-market negotiations and a bag of dirty tricks.
We all heard the same "sermon" and ran like hell because we already were
familiar with both their market controlling efforts and this same bag of
dirty tricks a bar of good soap has little effect because you simply
cannot make them palatable in a free market.
I see Linus is drifting back to his older style, issuing the desktop
people a whipping they are in need of over the weekend, saying 90% of
why linux doesn't control the desktop is that there is not a
standardized, one size fits all because it can do all things desktop.
> > But there are other users, not this unskilled but lacking, who
> > knows, time and wishing nevertheless that some option was available,
> > say, running WindowMaker on top of Gnome daemons.
>
> A neat idea BTW.
>
> > And for those there should be at least a good document about doing
> > it.
>
> Agreed.
+10 or more.
> > And not leaving them being forced to do something like a "triple
> > backward sommersault" for doing these changes.
>
> The way things go right now with the GNOME all those impressive tricks
> will be obsolete. Unless, of course, some kind soul moves that "sway"
> thing from the experimental to sid.
> Because AFAIK there are only four "Wayland window managers" (it's
> techically incorrect to call them that, I know), and only two of them
> made into buster so far (GNOME's mutter and weston, the reference
> one).
>
> Reco
I'm not advocating that TDE is THAT desired standardized desktop, but so
far it its given me the tools to get the job done AND ITS STABLE. TDE
is a fork of kde at the 3.5 level, with litterally thousands of its bugs
fixed, something KDE has steadfastly refused to do unless it outright
crashed the machine in the life of KDE since 1.0.
So let me say this: If I can't run a desktop I am familiar with, AND
productive with, because wayland won't run it, theres always mke2fs.
This is still wheezy, because except for firefox, it Just Works. Theres
another 2T drive with the latest stretch installed on it in this machine
and I was in the process of moving my stuff to it with the intention of
updating to Buster when it was declared stable. That came to a
screeching halt when I read that synaptic was gone from buster. What I
do next is still open for discussion. 3 of the 4 other machine tool
driving machines on my network are also on wheezy, with the 4th, an
r-pi-3b running a 3/4 ton lathe, running jessie, poorly. Good, realtime
kernels and armhf are not on the best of terms, yet I get power failure
to power failure uptimes.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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