Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
On Thu 23 Mar 2017 at 22:23:42 -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote:
> > On Mar 23, 2017, at 9:22 PM, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
> >
> > Catherine, I'm curious - when was the last time you installed Debian
> > using d-i? I've now seen you several times write (like above) about
> > "backing out of the installer after the reboot". Are you talking about
> > a second stage of d-i after it's installed the base system?
> >
> My last Debian netinst installation was January 11, 2017.
>
> Very early in the installation the installer looks for a network card
> to configure. If you have a NIC that will not function without
> non-free firmware this step fails, and the installer says it failed,
> but the installer still allows you to continue with the installation,
> installing all the base system files.
Prior to configuring the network you will have been informed about
missing firmware. If you do not supply it and choose to move on, the
network configuration is (in my experience with USB WiFi adapters)
most likely to fail. Anyway, you are told the firmware is needed so the
choice to continue or not is yours.
If a working network is important to you, you would stop and do
something to rectify the situation. If it is not important or you intend
to sort it out after the first boot or you want to chance your arm, you
carry on. The probable outcome is that a network mirror cannot be chosen
and only files supplied by the image can be installed.
Your concern is inexperienced newcomers and your argument is, I believe,
for d-i to issue a fatal error and not allow any further steps to be
taken on the road to installation. That's in spite of an earlier message
about firmware being required. This seems superfluous and over the top.
Note also that network configuration can fail for reasons other than
missing firmware.
> Then it tells you the base system is installed, and it needs to
> reboot. It ejects the media and reboots into the installer. You can
I have *never* seen d-i of itself requesting a reboot after the base
system is installed when the network is not set up. Are we using the
same installer?
> choose to quit at this point by choosing "back"rather than "continue"
> possibly more than once being needed. That is what I mean by "backing
> out" to deliberately get a base system install only. So, yes, I am
> talking about the second stage after it has installed the base system.
It moves on to configuring the package manager and installing software.
The installer knows there is no network so the only choice of software
is "standard system utilities". By now the newcomer might begin to twig
that not having the network wasn't the best of stategies.
> If some beginner continued on past the reboot without a configured NIC
> they are given a list of mirrors, but will be unable to select and
> connect to one successfully. The installation fails at this point,
> being unable to continue, stuck in an infinite loop of failed mirror
> selection. They have a Debian base system installation now, their old
> OS overwritten, and no network capability to get the information they
> need to fix the problem. And that assumes they are even capable of
> working with the command line to to fix it - and most beginners are
> not.
No mirror list is offered; the installer knows better than to do that
when there is no network. Are we using the same installer?
> My argument is that the failure to configure a NIC in the first stage
> of the installer should be a fatal, show-stopping error with
> appropriate messaging to the user that no NIC is configured and
> non-free firmware is required. This would prevent many failed
> installations, while not preventing advanced users from quitting the
> installer after the base system is installed.
A fatal error is a fatal error. No one can move past it.
Don't misunderstand me. There is a messiness to the firmware situation
but it is not solved by preventing d-i doing its job. The install might
not be exactly what some wanted but it is not a failure. The system will
be fully functioning and open to enhancement. A triumph for the
installer you might say. ;)
--
Brian.
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