On 2015-08-31 at 03:47, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 11:19:12PM +0200, Christian Seiler wrote: > > Disclaimer: I totally dislike systemd. I'll try to do what it takes > to enjoy a systemd-free Debian. I'm not going to discuss the whys and > hows -- tne Nets are already full of that. That said... > > Thanks, Christian, for your level-headed post. I heartily agree whith > you. Let me especially point out: > >> It's really sad to see that so many people assume bad faith on the >> other side of an argument, just because you disagree with them. > > Let's get back to work. Those wanting systemd: make the best systemd > ever! Those not wanting it: work hard to make life possible without. > > Slinging mud at people never helps: Lennart Poettering isn't out > there "to get us" -- he's writing free software. He deserves to be > treated respectfully just for that. While I understand what you're getting at here, and I believe I agree with the underlying point, I do not agree with this actual statement. Some people develop and distribute malware as free software. Do they deserve to be treated with respect for doing that? Now, systemd and pulseaudio and the like are not malware - but from some people's perspectives, much if not all of the software which Lennart writes and makes available (indeed, actively pushes) is not far short of being just as undesirable as malware, and it's becoming just as hard to avoid, albeit for very different reasons. Also, while I agree that Lennart is not out "to get us" in the sense of malicious laughter and diabolical plans, he _does_ seem to outright reject some principles which have been valued in the free-software world for decades, to want to see those principles crushed to whatever extent they interfere with his own goals, and to have zero sympathy or respect in practice for those who do value those principles. The end result may not be all that different. If some people decide that writing and pushing software designs which are actively opposed to their values is not worthy of respect, the fact that it is free software is not automatically enough to overcome that. > Systemd opponents often have their reasons for their opposition -- > they aren't just "parroting" or "averse to change". They deserve to > have their decision respected too. > > Let's get along together, m'kay? Agreed. For what it's worth, I don't think this particular iteration of the discussion has gotten nearly as heated or as hostile or as harmful as many of the previous ones have done. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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