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Re: debian 8

On Monday 13 April 2015 08:07:40 Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2015, at 23:52, Bret Busby wrote:
> > What they told me, is that the problem was solved by removing the
> > battery, for about 15 minutes, then reinstalling the battery, and
> > that the cause is that sometimes, operating systems do not shutdown
> > properly.
> Looks like the usual firmware quality issues, here.  The problem is
> really caused by halfbaked BIOS/UEFI/EC firmware, but the motherboard
> vendor will NOT fix that and will blame the operating system instead. 
> Unless it is a server, then they fix it really fast.
> The workaround for this class of problems is to "brain-dead" the box:
> for deskptop and servers, unplugging from main power for a few minutes
> should do it, but for laptops you must remove the batteries and press
> the power button several times (for long periods)... it is even a
> long-time documented procedure on IBM and Lenovo Thinkpads.
> For the record, the procedure for (modern) thinkpads is: remove
> battery packs and AC power, press power button for 4-5s at least 10
> times, then follow with a long press (longer than 13s) at least once.
> Sometimes it will also be necessary to remove the backup (RTC/CMOS)
> battery.  In that case you will likely have to leave the box unpowered
> (do not reconnect any of the batteries or power) for several hours
> (try at least 12 hours) AFTER you did the power-button dance above, to
> actually reset everything.

What has become of the triplet of header pins on the motherboard that 
used to do that. Simply move the flea clip to the other end pair and 
count to 10, put it back where you found it.  In the normal position the 
cmos battery is connected.  In the other position the battery is not 
only disconnected, but the battery input to the cmos is forceably 
grounded, defeating the timing forced on you by any energy storage 
capacitor that may also be present in the circuit.

Do they not put that on the newer motherboards?

IMO no board without that should ever be considered for purchase.
YMMV of course...

> > According to them, the whole of the problem, was the failure of the
> > last used operating system, to properly shutdown.

And I will submit that if that is now the case, its a total B.S. excuse, 
likely forced on the board makers by you know who, who is a convicted 
monopolist and will do anything to survive in a world they might have 
helped create but have now been superceeded by a generally superior 
product that also happens to be essentially free.

In any event, the above certainly generates a sequence of questions to be 
asked of the peddler of any new board one might buy, questions that if 
the sales driod cannot readily answer or quickly find someone who does 
have the answer, would make me look for a peddler who is knowledgeable 
enough to answer with sensible, truthful answers.

> Depends how you look at it, I guess. In my book, when firmware _and_
> hardware fail to ensure a box power downs properly in the power-down
> path, and that it resets everything properly from any invalid states
> in the power-up path, it is a firmware and/or hardware defect (often a
> design shortcoming in the hardware case), not an operating system
> defect.

+1000 & Amen.

> --
>   "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
>   them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
>   where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
>   Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org>

Cheers, Gene Heskett
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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