Re: Challenge to you: Voice your concerns regarding systemd upstream
Martin Steigerwald <Martin@lichtvoll.de> writes:
>> Am Donnerstag, 25. September 2014, 01:45:50 schrieb lee:
>>
>> Fedora does already depend on systemd --- and I would say completely.
>> Or do you see a choice here?
>
> And exactly *how* is this relevant to Debian?
It is an example for how a distribution can or will depend on systemd.
Debian goes the Fedora way by making systemd the default init system, so
the chances that Debian will as much depend on systemd as Fedora already
does once this change has been completed seem rather high.
>> > Or to *help*. Make a logind that does not depend on systemd. Offer it to
>> > the upstreams that need it.
>>
>> I'm sure it would be ignored or rejected --- even if I had the knowledge
>> to make anything like that and was able to keep up with what other ppl
>> are doing.
>
> I do think that you don´t want change.
I don't mind changing to a different default init system or letting
users decide which one they want to use. The more the default init
system is a bad choice, the more the users need to be able to choose
another one. With systemd, they won't have a choice.
> You expect distro developers to fix it for you. You are not willing to take
> things upstream.
I expect the distribution developers not to break things for me and to
make better decisions than supporting systemd like they do.
Again, I consider it to be totally futile to try to convince the makers
of systemd to fix the issues it brings about. They cannot be unaware of
them, so obviously they don't want to fix them. I've seen for myself
that they don't want to fix even little bugs which would be easy to fix
from the bug report I made about their misunderstanding of what
"disabled" means.
If they are unaware of the issues, then how could Debian ever decide to
support systemd?
> That doesn´t create change.
Change for the sake of change isn't necessarily a good thing. Systemd
is not a change for the better unless it's one more choice becoming
available, and I'm not creating it.
>
> I omit the rest.
>
> Cause I do think that it is a *waste* of *my* energy to continue this.
>
> I offered ways to act towards *change*.
>
> You rejected *all* of them.
>
> Nothing I have to offer to you anymore.
>
> If you want to put your energy into writing lengthy posts here on this mailing
> list lamenting of oh how bad it all is, instead of *acting* towards change… or
> at least give it a try to bring things to were decisions are made or help to
> facilite change, that is completely and entirely your choice.
My posts on debian-devel were ignored.
> It is not mine, however.
>
> So I think we make different choices here. I am willing to give systemd a fair
> change, willing to report bugs and I am also willing to take concerns
> upstream. Thats my choice.
Good luck with that.
--
Knowledge is volatile and fluid. Software is power.
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