Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely
Andrei POPESCU writes:
> On Du, 02 mar 14, 18:09:46, ghaverla wrote:
> >
> > Systemd seems to have 2 proponents, people interested in fast booting,
> > and people interested in servers. The intersection of those two groups
> > is almost the NULL set. I think the answer to faster booting is
> > hibernation, and people have been playing with that for many years as
> > near as I can tell. To the people running servers who want faster
> > booting, I would suggest that they not turn the things off.
>
> Hibernation has it's own set of problems, especially as RAM sizes go up.
I am interested in this issue. Could you tell some more about this?
> > It isn't change is evil, the saying is if it isn't broken, don't fix it.
>
> But things *are* broken. Any computer with more than 1 (one) storage
> device (not hot pluggable please) and 1 (one) wired network connection
> (IPv4, not IPv6) with a static configuration and all other devices
> connected at boot needs more than sysvinit + sysv-rc can handle sanely.
I completely disagree. I had quite a nicely complex storage server
with trunking and multipath things on, and it was sane and clean.
What was a bit 'magic' was iSCSI, but I doubt it was due init!
On my laptop-used-as-a-desktop, I solved any problem quite sanely,
even if it involved skills, skills that I borrowed from my wife (who
"has any AIX certification IBM provided an exam for" :) :) :) :)):
- my external, always plugged, HD is automatically mounted with LVM
provided I see its id in lsusb output.
- usb keys have their label.
This is extremely sane. It is also a bit for tech savy not for end
users.
> If you don't believe me just do
>
> grep sleep /etc/init.d/*
You should do a step further. Go and watch what each one does.
The large majority of sleeps is used in restarting a daemon
(/etc/init.d/some-devil restart), to wait that the kill has succeeded
before restarting the daemon itself.
A DBUS system could indeed make things cleaner (I wolud like to know
the cost).
But restart is never invoked by init in bootstrap or shutdown.
Therefore I really can't see the issue with the use for sleep. True,
with messages that could be cleaner...
Maybe. Easy example: write an event driven POP client and compare the
code with some other doing sleeps :).
> And let's not forget about: remote shares, remote storage, encrypted
> storage, local hot-plugged devices (not limited to storage), dynamic
> network configuration (especially with IPv6), etc.
Except storage, the other stuff is "personal pc stuff". What is good
on a personal pc may not be good on a server - and vice versa. They
look the same (for low end servers), but they are not.
And while 20 years ago I could have been on the "go systemd go" side,
today I still think that there are things that could have done better
with less problems given to the "server running" guys with no cost
given to "pc running" guys except waiting a bit more.
--
/\ ___ Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_____ African word
//--\| | \| | Integralista GNUslamico meaning "I can
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già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso... Debian"
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