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Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, berenger.morel@neutralite.org wrote:

> Le 02.12.2014 08:05, Patrick Bartek a écrit :
> >> >> > and more and more
> >> >> > developers will start writing apps with systemd, or parts of 
> >> it,
> >> >> > as a dependency for the "features" it offers.
> >>
> >> It's their choice - likewise it's your choice *not* to write
> >> alternatives. It 'sounds' like you're proposing a regime where
> >> those that produce have their "freedom of choice" constrained by
> >> "users". I struggle to find a rationale that makes that reasonable
> >> or likely to
> >> do anything other than destroy, given that the "user" has a choice.
> >
> > User's do contrain.  They even dictate.  Always have.  Developers
> > should, if they are samrt, be developing what customers want or
> > need. Not the other way around. That's the formula for going out of 
> > business.
> > Listening to your customers as well as your potential customers is 
> > just
> > good business.
> Really?
> Tss...
> How many projects have you, as a user, constrained to do something? 
> Being commercial or not...

I don't know.  Is filing a bug report and having the developer fix it a
constraint on the software?  If I fix the bug myself?  Is that?  It does
ultimately STOP the problem the bug was causing whether I do it myself
or not.  The constraining, the stopping, of something is not always a
bad thing. We are constrained in our lives as well as in our work by
a multitude of factors.  Sometimes, it's good; other time not.  That's

> You may had some success in commercial softwares, because of
> contracts, but for small projects, or projects were the developpers
> are not paid, when they only contribute because they wan't to use it,
> but without having to suffer some bug or another, or with a feature
> they would like to have, I sincerely doubt you had constrained anyone.

Most of my contributions to software development as a user, not a
developer, have been with projects that only involved one or two
coders/developers whom you could contact directly, personally.  One of
those projects ultimately became the Opera browser.  But I've done
little of that since moving to Linux 15 years ago. Don't have the
patience anymore.  Or the time.  

> Honestly... if you want to constrain people on their spare time, if
> you want to remove us the last part of fun we can have in
> programming, then... well, people wont listen you, to stay polite.
> And it's normal.

See above about life's constraints.

> Open source developpers are not all paid for what they do. Only a 
> minority is, and in this minority, I am not sure that the bigger part 
> actually live from open source softwares.

If you're not making money from your Open Source, then you have to
have income from somewhere else.  Else how would you live?  From the
kindness of strangers, perhaps? 

> [snip]
> Oh. And, you forgot something. FOSS developpers are the users of
> their work, unlike in commercial softwares. And it changes *a lot* of
> things, if not everything.

I didn't forget.  I once wrote a very specialize file manager just for
me to satisfy some peculiar requirements I had at the time.  It was of
little use to a general user.  Never distributed it.  No feedback.
Fixed the bugs myself.  Etc.  But if you put your code/project (FOSS or
otherwise) "out there" expect feedback from others.  We're a talky
bunch.  And listen to them.  You may get some very good ideas and
solutions for improvements.  It may even change the direction of the
entire project turning something that initially was just a pet project,
a hobby, into something that many would benefit from.


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