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Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie

On 2 December 2014 at 08:18, Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Ric Moore wrote:
>> On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>> > I fear that once


> > >systemd is firmly entrenched in Debian

? Perl might be, but it seems a little hyperbolic to say systemd is
(anymore then dev/devfs/Xfree-86/OpenOffice was).

> > > as the
>> > default init more distros will follow suit,

Very few do not include systemd. I'd welcome a definitive list of
those that don't.

>> > and more and more
>> > developers will start writing apps with systemd, or parts of it, as
>> > a dependency for the "features" it offers.

It's their choice - likewise it's your choice *not* to write alternatives.
It 'sounds' like you're proposing a regime where those that produce
have their "freedom of choice" constrained by "users".
I struggle to find a rationale that makes that reasonable or likely to
do anything other than destroy, given that the "user" has a choice.

>> Every other distro of merit has long since made the switch. We're
>> just late to the party.  Are you just figuring it out now? Ric
> Depends on what you mean by "distros of merit."
> Last time I checked -- two or three weeks ago -- only 6 distros
> besides Jessie were using systemd as the default:

Depends on what 'you' call "*default*". It implies a choice - as
opposed to "*mandatory*".
More importantly it depends on whether using "default" as a measure of
support for your "argument"(?) is relevant.

> Fedora 15,
> RHEL 7, CentOS 7, Arch, OpenSUSE, and SUSE Server.  Just read today
> OpenMandriva uses it. Probably Mandriva, too.  Haven't checked. So, 9
> total including Jessie. In any case, not a long list.

Assuming your best intentions - that you meant "supported", it's a
*much* longer list. A shorter list is those distributions that *do
not* include systemd.
> I've also just read of a systemd-less fork of Jessie/Debian.  Debuan, I
> think it's called.

A novel "fork" in that it appears to focus more on raising money than
producing code, and that it's "developers" are anonymous. An
interesting concept for a FOSS project.
Aside from those peculiarities (and the hype associated with it)
perhaps it will turn out to be a more recent version of xwin?
(apologies to Keith Packard if the comparison is unjustified).


I tend to agree with Theodore Ts'o[*1] in that systemd is a worthy
project designed to fix the failings and overcome the limitations of
sysinitv, and that it 'might' be moving too fast. In that light I
applaud the Debian decision to make it the *default*[*2] in Jessie so
that it's failings can be exposed to a wider audience for the purposes
of assessment and improvement.

[*1] and Linux Torvalds, (oft misquoted)
[*2] while maintaining support for alternative inits where individual
developer's and packager's time constraints/motivations allow.

Hopefully returning the list to it's correct discussions

Yours in Debian solidarity

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