Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> On 2 December 2014 at 08:18, Patrick Bartek <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> > On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Ric Moore wrote:
> >> On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > > as the
> >> > default init more distros will follow suit,
> Very few do not include systemd. I'd welcome a definitive list of
> those that don't.
As as option at install time or during an upgrade? Don't know of any.
As far as I've read, I believe only Slackware absolutely refuses to use
systemd. I don't even think it's in the repo. I don't know if systemd
will even work with Slackware.
> >> > and more and more
> >> > developers will start writing apps with systemd, or parts of it,
> >> > as a dependency for the "features" it offers.
> It's their choice - likewise it's your choice *not* to write
> alternatives. It 'sounds' like you're proposing a regime where those
> that produce have their "freedom of choice" constrained by "users".
> I struggle to find a rationale that makes that reasonable or likely to
> do anything other than destroy, given that the "user" has a choice.
User's do contrain. They even dictate. Always have. Developers
should, if they are samrt, be developing what customers want or need.
Not the other way around. That's the formula for going out of business.
Listening to your customers as well as your potential customers is just
> >> Every other distro of merit has long since made the switch. We're
> >> just late to the party. Are you just figuring it out now? Ric
> > Depends on what you mean by "distros of merit."
> > Last time I checked -- two or three weeks ago -- only 6 distros
> > besides Jessie were using systemd as the default:
> Depends on what 'you' call "*default*". It implies a choice - as
> opposed to "*mandatory*".
You do have a choice, but ONLY after systemd is installed and the
system is running. "Mandatory" to me would imply you cannot change it
at all. Ever. The system wouldn't work if you did. But we know that is not
> More importantly it depends on whether using "default" as a measure of
> support for your "argument"(?) is relevant.
> > Fedora 15,
> > RHEL 7, CentOS 7, Arch, OpenSUSE, and SUSE Server. Just read today
> > OpenMandriva uses it. Probably Mandriva, too. Haven't checked. So,
> > 9 total including Jessie. In any case, not a long list.
> Assuming your best intentions - that you meant "supported", it's a
> *much* longer list. A shorter list is those distributions that *do
> not* include systemd.
I meant those distros that install systemd as the init at install
> > I've also just read of a systemd-less fork of Jessie/Debian.
> > Debuan, I think it's called.
> A novel "fork" in that it appears to focus more on raising money than
> producing code, and that it's "developers" are anonymous. An
> interesting concept for a FOSS project.
> Aside from those peculiarities (and the hype associated with it)
> perhaps it will turn out to be a more recent version of xwin?
> (apologies to Keith Packard if the comparison is unjustified).
Except for a quick skim of Debuan's homepage, I know little of it. Only
that development hasn't even begun. Best to check back in a year to see
how it's going.
> I tend to agree with Theodore Ts'o[*1] in that systemd is a worthy
> project designed to fix the failings and overcome the limitations of
> sysinitv, and that it 'might' be moving too fast. In that light I
> applaud the Debian decision to make it the *default*[*2] in Jessie so
> that it's failings can be exposed to a wider audience for the purposes
> of assessment and improvement.
Well, we already know what a lot of Debian server admins think of
systemd. I'll be interested to see what the release after Jessie is
like. Until then, I good with Wheezy.