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Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)

2014/11/15 22:57 "Andrei POPESCU" <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>:
> On Sb, 15 nov 14, 22:05:58, Joel Rees wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Andrei POPESCU
> > <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > [(clipping too much, I now realize)]
> > > The transition plan[5] has been posted on -devel since July with no
> > > objections.
> > >
> > > [5] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/07/msg00611.html
> >
> > My impression is that objections logged to that thread, had there been
> > any, would have been to the method or timing, not to the switch
> > itself.
> >
> > In other words, members of dev who disagreed to the switch itself
> > would have needed a different thread to register their continued
> > disagreement.
> In my impression Debian is most of the times much *less* formalised than
> this.
> What is actually quite frustrating in this particular case (for me as an
> outsider, can't even imagine how it is for people directly involved) is
> how people don't engage in such a thread, but instead escalate to the TC
> and/or GR directly.
> > And I am under the impression that there was an undercurrent of
> > "object to this and lose your geek cred."
> Definitely doesn't match my impression.

Well, Brian posted a link to a repurposed graphic of the waiting forever meme.

And Dimitrios posted a link to a use case that is, indeed, not well covered by the _current_ (as of the freeze) systemd package.

Sure, if you know the trick, you can get it to go, with some compromise. Have to encrypt root too or something equally counterintuitive. And I'm sure they'll get that fixed, too, put the documentation in, get plymouth set up to no longer be just a splash screen by default, instruct everyone to encrypt their root partitions or whatever the other part was. Maybe after the freeze they get whatever requires that second part fixed as well.

What they are selling is a solution to everyone's problems, and they way it works is that they
provide a solution after we find the problem.

That is not substantially different from the way it was with sysvinit, except now the systemd crowd are the go-to guys for all things init, where, before, you had the expertise spread out. There wasn't a single group.

We teach them and they become our experts.

And it works as long as everyone will just do it their way.

Renaud's sig had a rather interesting quote from Simon Bolivar a few posts up.

Joel Rees

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