Re: Avoiding SystemD isn't hard
Am Mittwoch, 22. Oktober 2014, 07:04:12 schrieb Jape Person:
> On 10/21/2014 09:22 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> > Don Armstrong wrote:
> >> On Tue, 21 Oct 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> >>> which is immediately followed by completely inaccurate information,
> >>> including:
> >>>
> >>> ------
> >>> "With jessie, it will become /easier/ to choose the init system, because
> >>> *neither init system is essential now*. Instead, there is an essential
> >>> meta-package "init", which requires you to install one of systemd-sysv |
> >>> sysvinit-core | upstart. In other words, you have more choice than ever
> >>> before."
> >>
> >> This statement is actually correct; until this change it was not
> >> possible to completely replace sysvinit with another init system without
> >> running dpkg-divert commands to divert the init away.
> >
> > ok.
> >
> >>> When, in fact, there IS no way to prevent systemd from being installed
> >>> during installation (except for upgrades).
> >>
> >> That preseeding doesn't do this is a bug, it's filed (#668001), and the
> >> patch for it was just written on Friday the 17th. Because Debian is
> >> going to freeze in less than three weeks, the maintainers are wary of
> >> applying this patch this close to release without extensive testing.
> >>
> >> Furthermore, the effect of this patch is trivially obtained by using a
> >> late_command to remove systemd-sysv and install sysvinit-core.
> >
> > except for the various reported issues with all the things aptitude
> > wants to remove when you try this.... (I really hate unwinding highly
> > entangled dependencies).
> >
> >> If you actually want to see this patch applied to the version of the
> >> Debian installer that Jessie will release with, you should coordinate
> >> with the nice people in #debian-boot to see what type of testing they
> >> would want to see before they are willing to vet the patch.
> >
> > Good point - will see how receptive they are.
> >
> >>> Which leaves the only option being to install, with systemd, then follow
> >>> the instructions in
> >>> https://randomstring.org/blog/blog/2014/10/14/removing-systemd-from-a-d
> >>> ebian-jessie-system/>>>
> >>> |# apt-get install sysv-rc sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils
> >>>
> >>> # apt-get purge systemd libpam-systemd systemd-sysv
> >>
> >> This is the wrong command to run. You want:
> >>
> >> aptitude install sysvinit-core systemd-sysv-;
> >>
> >> Removing libpam-systemd and systemd something depends on them isn't
> >> useful; they don't determine what the init system is, after all.
> >
> > seems like we could use some definitive instructions on how to actually
> > do this; we now have:
> >
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/09/msg00969.html
> > and
> > https://randomstring.org/blog/blog/2014/10/14/removing-systemd-from-a-debi
> > an-jessie-system/
> >
> > (where I copied the above instructions from)
> > followed by:
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/09/msg00998.html
> > and now your comments above
> > - plus the various bug reports about how to avoid mass uninstallations
> > by aptitude (e.g.,
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/10/msg00409.html)
> >
> > A distinct lack of clarity, given the TC resolution about expecting
> > Jessie to support multiple init systems, but not actually having a
> > clearly defined way to do anything except hack until one gets things to
> > work.
> >
> > Miles Fidelman
>
> I haven't paid a lot of attention to threads concerning systemd because
> of the (unfortunate, though occasionally entertaining) hyperbole and
> innuendo employed by so many of the involved parties. I mostly despaired
> of finding anything substantive in the various threads.
>
> But I'm glad you (and Don Armstrong) have been among the more reasonable
> participants in the argument.
>
> I was wondering if either of you -- or anyone else -- has tried the
> init-select package to see if it is actually able to avoid adverse
> effects upon the installed software while allowing the user (presumably
> someone with root privs) to select among init systems. That would be
> nice, wouldn't it?
>
> I intend to look at it this weekend, if I can find some time for a
> little project. I'm guessing that it's pretty basic, and maybe not meant
> for use on systems with DEs, DMs, WMs, and lots of GUI user applications
> installed on them. It it works for those, then the author truly deserves
> congratulations.
>
> I hope everyone finds a way to get a system configuration s/he can live
> with happily!
I did, as did a co-worker of mine.
It appears to be basically working, but not always does what I would expect
from it. So I reported some bug reports about it:
init-select init-select adds sysvinit while systemd already there
https://bugs.debian.org/762558
init-select: assumes systemd is default while its not
https://bugs.debian.org/762578
http://bugs.debian.org/init-select shows one other bug regarding
functionality:
init-select: Offers not installed inits, confusing error messages, unhelpfull
description
https://bugs.debian.org/759031
Thats not much so far, I wonder whether many people test this.
A co-worker of mine tested with openrc, but there was a problem on boot with
openrc. It hung on some service and it wasn´t even possible to Ctrl-C it like
often possible with sysvinit. I don´t remember the details tough. But he
switched back. While openrc may be reliable and stable with Gentoo, I think
the debian variant of it can actually use more testing.
Ciao,
--
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7
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