Re: If Not Systemd, then What?
On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 12:00:01 PM UTC+5:30, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 09:34:48PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Mon, 20 Oct 2014 12:45:11 -0700
> > Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > After much vitriolic gnashing of teeth from those opposed to systemd,
> > > I wonder... What is a better alternative?
> > * Nosh
> So this one is fun, it is just a direct copy of the systemd service format.
> Guess the proof that's at least a feature that people do want, dropping shell.
> And of course, not only the format is copied, it took the set of systemd
> services and copied them like this. I am sure ftp-masters wouldn't accept
> a GPL violation ( as the .service file are likely not un the BSD ).
> > * Runit
> was non free for a long time, not sure if developped
> anymore, especially since last post on one of the ml date back to
> June 2013.
> > * Upstart
> no longer developped, and suffer from several bugs, go read the tech-ctte
> debate.
> > * S6
> likely the same as runit when it come to be alive.
> > * Probably more I don't know about.
> You could add openrc, the only serious contender.
> > > And it can't be sysvinit.
> > > Yes. Syvinit still works, but it is after all 20 years old. It's been
> > > patched and bolted onto and jury-rigged
> > Nobody's arguing for sysvinit as a long term solution, for the exact
> > reasons you post above. Those of us who appeared to favor sysvinit were
> > saying "let's wait until we have something good." We also pointed out
> > the false choice of prematurely narrowing it to systemd, Upstart or
> > sysvinit.
> You mean "let's do like we did since 20 years, wait, in case if something will happen".
> None of the alternatives you propose have been widely adopted by anyone except upstart.
> And that's mostly because no one cared about them up to the point to even propose them.
> > Now of course, the systemd cabal will argue that we can't wait any
> > longer. My question to them is, why was sysvinit not a dire emergency
> > until Red Hat's systemd juggernaut came along, and then all of a
> > sudden we just couldn't wait?
> You mean that after waiting several years, the solution is to wait again, because
> no one cared before, and when 1 group came and changed, the solution is to refuse
> and go back doing nothing ?
Fallacy of False Dilemma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
There are other choices to
- do nothing as weve done for 20 years
- do it now
In particular, one can take a holistic view: not just Stable -> Jessie,
but rather Stable -> Jessie -> Jessie+1
and work out the least disruptive, most generally acceptable solution
in that +1ed widened frame
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