Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)
Bas Wijnen <wijnen@debian.org> writes:
> [Moving this to -project, where it belongs; please follow up only
> there, not on -user or -devel.]
>
> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 06:18:01PM +0200, lee wrote:
>> Why doesn't Debian just do a GR on this issue?
>
> Because for a GR, a member of Debian has to request it and it needs to
> be seconded by at least 5 other members (constitution 4.2.1, 4.2.7).
> This has not happened.
I know, and I'm suggesting to omit this requirement.
>> Considering that the users are Debians' priority, couldn't this issue be
>> a case in which significant concerns from/of the users about an issue
>> might initiate a GR?
>
> No. Debian is a very elitist organization. The members decide what to
> do, and nobody else does. As a whole we rule over our users with
> enlightened absolutism. The main difference with rulers of countries is
> that our users can go away more easily. ;-)
>
> Debian is extremely democratic for its members, but it is utterly
> undemocratic for its users. And there's nothing wrong with that, IMO.
Then they shouldn't say in their social contract that the users and
their needs are the priority.
>> Wouldn't it speak loudly for Debian and its ways and for what it
>> stands for, or used to stand for, if it was established procedure that
>> issues arising significant concerns amongst the users can lead to a
>> GR?
>
> I'll speak for myself here: I don't really care about the init system.
> I am unhappy with the emotions that this debate is causing, but I'm not
> very interested in the technical parts. From what I see on the mailing
> lists, it seems that a few users are very unhappy and they keep bringing
> this up. But if this would be a big issue for many people, then there
> should be no problem finding 6 members to start a GR (our members are
> users, too). That still hasn't happened, so I conclude that it isn't a
> big issue.
There can be many reasons for why there hasn't been a GR. Some of these
may be that the devs/maintainers don't really care about the init
system, or that they aren't aware of how far-reaching this issue is.
>> I'm sure we could find quite a few supporters for having a GR amongst
>> the users (here). And after all, we're all kinda stuck in the same
>> boat. A GR might have the potential to make the gap between users and
>> devs/maintainers a lot smaller. Otherwise, this gap will only continue
>> to become wider and wider.
>
> There are many members. If you can't manage to convince 6 of them, we
> don't consider it a big issue. You may disagree, but that's Debian's
> rules.
I think I don't need to convince 6 people on this list because there are
already enough people convinced.
--
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us. Finally, this fear has become reasonable.
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