Re: Let's have a vote!
Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> writes:
>> On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 03:04:24PM +0200, lee wrote:
>>
>> > Systemd can handle the boot process from head to toe, without needing
>> > to use any of the existing shell scripts.
>>
>> That's how systemd makes the boot process cryptic and non-debuggable.
>
> If you can understand start-stop-daemon, I'm sure systemd isn't much
> harder.
I never needed to understand it.
>> > Systemd unit files, unlike SysV scripts, can usually be shipped by
>> > upstream, or at least shared with other distributions (already more
>> > than 1000 existing unit files in Fedora) without any changes, the
>> > Debian specifics being handled by systemd itself.
>>
>> So Debian even has its own version of systemd to make things more
>> complicated.
>
> Debian has it's own idiosyncrasies of sysvinit, so this is a point to
> neither side.
They are simple scripts which are easy to understand. The so-called
"unit files" aren't.
>> > The transition plan is easy, since existing init scripts are treated
>> > as first-class services: scripts can depend (using LSB headers) on
>> > units, units can depend on scripts. More than 99% of init scripts can
>> > be used without a modification.
>>
>> What's easy about this, and why use systemd when the existing init
>> scripts are fine?
>
> You asked for advantages of systemd. The fact that you can transition to
> it is an advantage. Would you prefer an init system that is technically
> superior, yet entirely incompatible with sysvinit? Upstart was pipped at
> the post mostly because of systemd's compatibility with sysvinit
> scripts.
The whole thing needs to be re-done anyway. I'm not sure whether it
matters much or not whether you have to provide a suitable setup with
systemd or with something else.
> Users DO get a vote. Every time you download an ISO for debian, that's a
> vote. Every time you install a system as debian, that's a vote.
It would be a vote nobody knows or cares about.
> As has been mentioned several times on this list, the best way to get
> systemd out of debian is to develop an init system that is technically
> superior to systemd.
> [...]
There seems to be quite some disagreement about systemds' technical
superiority.
> When your new init system is ready for show time, either submit it to
> debian (if you'd like debian to lead the way) or create your own
> distribution to showcase the init system. Let people see the ease with
> which your new system tackles the problems of both sysvinit and systemd.
> Let them play with it and marvel at the clean, robust code.
>
> We look forward to the fruits of your efforts!
That'll be a long wait. Even if I made another init system, it would be
ignored like everything else.
--
Knowledge is volatile and fluid. Software is power.
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