Re: There is no choice
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 19:48:19 -0400
Jerry Stuckle <jstuckle@attglobal.net> wrote:
> On 9/20/2014 4:20 PM, Don Armstrong wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Sep 2014, lee wrote:
> >> These few people are also very concerned with preventing other
> >> people, particularly users, from doing something which would
> >> contribute to what they claim that they are doing.
> >
> > Exactly how are Debian Developers preventing others from
> > contributing?
> >
> > Almost everything we do is publicly available. Nothing is stopping
> > anyone from contributing to Debian, proposing patches, or even
> > forking Debian entirely if you want.
> >
> > In all of these separate threads, you have been doing little but
> > maligning people who are volunteering for Debian. It's not a nice
> > thing to do, it's not pleasant to read, and in doing so, you're
> > actively draining existing contributor's desire to continue working
> > on Debian.
> >
> > Please stop.
> >
>
> Don, I can understand your frustration. But please understand the
> frustration of the users. It seems the developers make the decisions
> and users feel left out. What we want does not seem to matter.
Which normally doesn't bother me a bit. After all, if I were that bent
out of shape, I'd just code my way out of the problem or go to a
different program. But this is so much different...
First, the entanglement is breathtaking. Not since Kmail2 have I seen
it rise to this level. Unless everything I learned, both from writing
software and from reading about software development and from taking
classes is incorrect, such entanglement is an invitation to a future
fiasco.
Second, evangelists for systemd have been known to say compare Linux
sound unflatteringly to Linux sound
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering), and to say "ignore
everything it says about
POSIX" (https://archive.fosdem.org/2011/interview/lennart-poettering).
If I wanted Windows, I'd buy it. I like Linux. I like the Unix
Philosophy. I like POSIX. If I didn't, I'd move to Windows or Mac
(which I guess will soon be more POSIX and Unix Philosophy than Linux.)
Third, and worst, is the systemd group's Microsoft-like actions. Do you
know the biggest challenge in using Daemontools for your init? Not the
"string and bailing wire". Not the technology. The challenge is that
systemd made udev go away, so to use Daemontools you'd first need to get
Gentoo's eudev compiled and running. Oh, and no KDE (not that I care),
no Gnome (not that I care), and no who knows how much other software.
When Microsoft engaged in breaking software like Netscape, WordPerfect,
and DR-DOS, Judge Jackson ruled it they were a monopoly and were using
their monopoly illegally.
You know why everyone's going along with systemd? Because if you don't,
all of a sudden you're incompatible with everything else. Is that an
accident, or is it planned? Is Red Hat the next Microsoft? They're sure
acting like it. Maybe we should look where the money's going.
I would expect Ubuntu to accept systemd. They do absolutely anything to
accommodate the most brain-dead user who doesn't even want a root user.
I'm sure a Gnome/systemd machine would work right out of the box. But
I'm disappointed in Debian's decision.
To me, it rises above the devs "not listening to me."
SteveT
Steve Litt * http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance
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